The Day Amazon Murdered History by Castle Hill Publishers

[Albion]

By the way, Stalin also invaded Poland around the same time as Hitler...but only Germany gets the blame for "starting the war". Why?

Because, as you said, Germany STARTED the war. Russian entered afterwards.

What I do know, is that at least in some places, the concentration camp inmates were treated humanely.

"And Hitler liked his dog, so he was really an admirable guy after all." I've heard that one, too.

EVEN IF it were true (which it is not) that concentration camp inmates were treated humanely in some places, would a minor exception to a program of mass murder exonerate the person responsible for those crimes?

Obviously, it would not.

 

[Messy]

As for camps (dutch camps) I know next to nothing. No, I don't think they are all lying. I think many Dutch suffered. But to blame it all on the Germans is completely nearsighted and without broader context.

What I do know, is that at least in some places, the concentration camp inmates were treated humanely.

Concentratiekampen in Nederland tijdens Tweede Wereldoorlog

In Nederland bestonden tijdens Tweede Wereldoorlog vijf concentratiekampen. In Ommen, Amersfoort, Schoorl, Vught en Westerbork

historiek.net

Camp Westerbork was set up by the Dutch government as a refugee camp to receive the many refugees from Nazi Germany. It was commissioned in October 1939. The camp was still under construction and the refugees were expected to help with the construction. When the Germans invaded the Netherlands on May 10, 1940, there were about 700 refugees in the camp. After a short evacuation to Leeuwarden, the refugees had to return after the capitulation. Refugees elsewhere were also brought to Westerbork. The net was getting tighter and tighter. The rules became stricter and Westerbork became more and more a concentration camp.
In July 1942 camp Westerbork officially became a Durchgangslager (transport camp). In Westerbork, an estimated 102,000 people were transported to the extermination camps in Poland or the labor camps in Germany. Less than 5,000 of them survived the war.

Westerbork did not have gas chambers, but it did have an incinerator. There was even a social life such as sports, music, workshops and a school. To keep people calm. Every Tuesday a train left for Germany and whoever had to come along was on the list that day. Where that train was going and for what was not told. People often hoped against their better judgment that it was to work. Deceiving people was part of the Nazis' strategy to kill their victims peacefully. For example, gas chambers were disguised as showers. And above the gates of many concentration camps was cheerfully written 'arbeit macht frei'.

 

[Messy]

By the way in the thirties the Nazi's were already persecuting Jewish people. The brother from Corrie ten Boom went to a university there in the 30s and said that an evil was taking place there, antisemitism in study books. He saved a Jewish guy in the 30s, who came from Germany. They had put his beard on fire.

 

[Stravinsk]

Because, as you said, Germany STARTED the war. Russian entered afterwards.

I never said Germany started the war. Only naive people who don't take into account the broader economic and social implications of the time believe this. The fact is, Hitler had an agreement with Stalin to share the occupation of Poland - Hitler believed this agreement would thwart Britain and France from entering a broader war. The reason Hitler advanced into Poland is because the Poles had been murdering the Germans living in that country, most likely on the press propaganda in Poland that was operative at that time. The Russians entered just a few weeks later.

Wars are not started on military action. The real blame for the war lies with International Jewry, which declared economic war way back in 1933.

"And Hitler liked his dog, so he was really an admirable guy after all." I've heard that one, too.

EVEN IF it were true (which it is not) that concentration camp inmates were treated humanely in some places, would a minor exception to a program of mass murder exonerate the person responsible for those crimes?

Obviously, it would not.

There was no program of mass murder of Jews by Germans. In the absence of official documents it has to be assumed, and evidence (pictures) have to be interpreted. Kids are shown (real) photos of piles of dead bodies thrown into ditches and starving people in camps and are given the interpretation that the allies wanted. That the Germans did it, when in reality it was the obliteration of German infrastructure that broke down supply lines which led to mass starvation, overcrowding and disease.

And contrary to your opinion, the video does show that people were treated humanely in the camps mentioned. They had sports, plays, orchestras and even swimming pools. Those archives are taken from the thousands the Shoah institute interviewed. Spielberg chose only the ones that fit the narrative of cruel, murdering Nazis to present to the world. Wonder why huh?

 

[Stravinsk]

Polish killed Germans? Never heard of that.

If one asks a typical westerner with a typical western education, and esp if that westerner is American, the response to why Germany attacked Poland is simply something along the lines of:

"Germany wanted to rule the world. We came in and eventually stopped it or else you'd be speaking German today". If one is satisfied with such a dumb dumb explanation (and many are), then have at it.

Here is a clip I created from a documentary that is only 11 minutes in length that gives the broader context to the reasons why Germany invaded Poland:

Trailer-Hitler The Greatest Story Never Told! - Polish Conflict

 

[Albion]

I never said Germany started the war. Only naive people who don't take into account the broader economic and social implications of the time believe this.

That's cute, but "the broader economic and social implications" do not constitute war. Would you like to assign new meanings to other words as the only way to exonerate the Nazis?

The fact is, Hitler had an agreement with Stalin to share the occupation of Poland - Hitler believed this agreement would thwart Britain and France from entering a broader war. The reason Hitler advanced into Poland is because the Poles had been murdering the Germans living in that country, most likely on the press propaganda in Poland that was operative at that time. The Russians entered just a few weeks later.

In other words, you admit that Germany DID strike first, and your earlier claim ("Stalin also invaded Poland around the same time as Hitler...but only Germany gets the blame for "starting the war") was deceitful.

Wars are not started on military action.

There was no program of mass murder of Jews by Germans.

And contrary to your opinion, the video does show that people were treated humanely in the camps mentioned. They had sports, plays, orchestras and even swimming pools.

Those activities, involving only a small number of prisoners, were arranged by the Germans in charge of the camps, strictly for their own benefit. Messy referred to this earlier.

In some cases, music was used to drown out the sounds of torture. In others, the Jewish orchestras were organized strictly for the entertainment of the Nazi administrators and guards, not for the prisoners. And in some cases, this and similar activities that might be considered "normal" were organized by the Nazis in order to deceive the prisoners into thinking that death was not, after all, the fate that awaited them.

And contrary to your opinion, the video does show that people were treated humanely in the camps mentioned. They had sports, plays, orchestras and even swimming pools.

Even if your ridiculous proposal were true, there is no way that they were places in which the prisoners were treated "humanely." There is nothing "humane" about being falsely imprisoned, starved, frozen, used as beasts of burden, etc.

Not even if there were plays and athletic events put on for the entertainment of the captors who probably thought that operating crematoria and torture chambers wasn't what they hoped for when they became soldiers of the Third Reich.

 

[Messy]

If one asks a typical westerner with a typical western education, and esp if that westerner is American, the response to why Germany attacked Poland is simply something along the lines of:

"Germany wanted to rule the world. We came in and eventually stopped it or else you'd be speaking German today". If one is satisfied with such a dumb dumb explanation (and many are), then have at it.

Here is a clip I created from a documentary that is only 11 minutes in length that gives the broader context to the reasons why Germany invaded Poland:

Trailer-Hitler The Greatest Story Never Told! - Polish Conflict

https://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/88507

Poland was invaded by Germany from the west on September 1, 1939, and by the Soviet Union from the east sixteen days later, as part of a secret deal between Hitler and Stalin. Six million Poles, including three million Polish Jews, were killed during the war. Warsaw was razed to the ground following a 1944 uprising in which about 200,000 civilians died.

German Propaganda Justifying Invasion of Poland

Brown leaflet titled, "Das Totenfeld der Volksdeutschen in Polen." Information Provided by Michael D. Bulmash: An imprint by the German authorities justifying the invasion of Poland. The leaflet, in German, reports on the alleged systematic massacre of the of ethnic Germans and claims that the...

digital.kenyon.edu

It was Nazi propaganda.

Stalin was also evil.

Deceiving the Public

The Nazis frequently used propaganda to disguise their political aims and deceive the German and international public.

encyclopedia.ushmm.org

On August 31, 1939, SS men dressed in Polish army uniforms “attacked” a German radio station at Gleiwitz (Gliwice). The next day, Hitler announced to the German nation and the world his decision to send troops into Poland in response to Polish “incursions” into the Reich.

In an effort to shape public opinion at home and abroad, the Nazi propaganda machine played up stories of new “Polish atrocities” once the war began. They publicized attacks on ethnic Germans in towns such as Bromberg (Bydgoszcz). There, fleeing Polish civilians and military personnel killed between 5,000 and 6,000 ethnic Germans, whom they had perceived, in the heat of the invasion, to be fifth column traitors, spies, Nazis, or snipers. By exaggerating the actual number of ethnic German victims killed in Bromberg and other towns to 58,000, Nazi propaganda enflamed passions, providing “justification” for the numbers of civilians that the Germans intended to kill.

An antisemitic poster published in German-occupied Poland in March 1941. The caption reads, "Jews are lice; They cause typhus." This German-published propaganda poster was intended to instill fear of Jews among Christian Poles.

A recurrent theme in Nazi antisemitic propaganda was that Jews spread diseases.

To prevent non-Jews from attempting to enter the ghettos and from seeing the condition of daily life there for themselves, German authorities posted quarantine signs at the entrances, warning of the danger of contagious disease. Since inadequate sanitation and water supplies coupled with starvation rations quickly undermined the health of the Jews in the ghettos, these warnings became a self-fulfilling prophecy, as typhus and other infectious diseases ravaged ghetto populations. Subsequent Nazi propaganda utilized these man-made epidemics to justify isolating the “filthy” Jews from the larger population.


Corrie ten Boom was in a barack with flees and her sister thanked God for the lice and the flees, cause you had to thank God for everything. They could share the Gospel there. After the war she found out why the guards didn't come there. It was because of the flees.

They were put in a train like cattle.

Americans didn't make up these stories. The people who went through it just told them.

 

[Stravinsk]

https://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/88507

Poland was invaded by Germany from the west on September 1, 1939, and by the Soviet Union from the east sixteen days later, as part of a secret deal between Hitler and Stalin. Six million Poles, including three million Polish Jews, were killed during the war. Warsaw was razed to the ground following a 1944 uprising in which about 200,000 civilians died.

German Propaganda Justifying Invasion of Poland

Brown leaflet titled, "Das Totenfeld der Volksdeutschen in Polen." Information Provided by Michael D. Bulmash: An imprint by the German authorities justifying the invasion of Poland. The leaflet, in German, reports on the alleged systematic massacre of the of ethnic Germans and claims that the...

digital.kenyon.edu

It was Nazi propaganda.

Stalin was also evil.

Deceiving the Public

The Nazis frequently used propaganda to disguise their political aims and deceive the German and international public.

encyclopedia.ushmm.org

On August 31, 1939, SS men dressed in Polish army uniforms “attacked” a German radio station at Gleiwitz (Gliwice). The next day, Hitler announced to the German nation and the world his decision to send troops into Poland in response to Polish “incursions” into the Reich.

In an effort to shape public opinion at home and abroad, the Nazi propaganda machine played up stories of new “Polish atrocities” once the war began. They publicized attacks on ethnic Germans in towns such as Bromberg (Bydgoszcz). There, fleeing Polish civilians and military personnel killed between 5,000 and 6,000 ethnic Germans, whom they had perceived, in the heat of the invasion, to be fifth column traitors, spies, Nazis, or snipers. By exaggerating the actual number of ethnic German victims killed in Bromberg and other towns to 58,000, Nazi propaganda enflamed passions, providing “justification” for the numbers of civilians that the Germans intended to kill.

An antisemitic poster published in German-occupied Poland in March 1941. The caption reads, "Jews are lice; They cause typhus." This German-published propaganda poster was intended to instill fear of Jews among Christian Poles.

A recurrent theme in Nazi antisemitic propaganda was that Jews spread diseases.

To prevent non-Jews from attempting to enter the ghettos and from seeing the condition of daily life there for themselves, German authorities posted quarantine signs at the entrances, warning of the danger of contagious disease. Since inadequate sanitation and water supplies coupled with starvation rations quickly undermined the health of the Jews in the ghettos, these warnings became a self-fulfilling prophecy, as typhus and other infectious diseases ravaged ghetto populations. Subsequent Nazi propaganda utilized these man-made epidemics to justify isolating the “filthy” Jews from the larger population.


Corrie ten Boom was in a barack with flees and her sister thanked God for the lice and the flees, cause you had to thank God for everything. They could share the Gospel there. After the war she found out why the guards didn't come there. It was because of the flees.

By golly, you're correct, Messy!

How could I be so deceived! All those Polish atrocities against Germans was just propaganda, because what Hitler REALLY wanted was to have Britain and France against him in a broader war...which would mean, ultimately, more Germans killed and risk more German suffering.

I bet his evil plan all along was to get the British and Americans to totally decimate his country!

How does that sound to a Pentacostal convinced of Hitler's "demon possession"? Now we can remember him not only as a mass murderer of the Jews, but of his own people too!

 

[Messy]

By golly, you're correct, Messy!

How could I be so deceived! All those Polish atrocities against Germans was just propaganda, because what Hitler REALLY wanted was to have Britain and France against him in a broader war...which would mean, ultimately, more Germans killed and risk more German suffering.

I bet his evil plan all along was to get the British and Americans to totally decimate his country!

How does that sound to a Pentacostal convinced of Hitler's "demon possession"? Now we can remember him not only as a mass murderer of the Jews, but of his own people too!

Fine. The Polish were monsters. The English were monsters, the Americans, Canadians were evil and Hitler and Stalin were sweethearts. And for our own good he bombed Amsterdam and Rotterdam because we were Aryan brothers and he wanted to save us from the evil Jews. I must stop now with my sarcasm cause I almost wanted to say Heil Hitler.
They were all misunderstood and sweet and playful.

 

[Stravinsk]

Fine. The Polish were monsters. The English were monsters, the Americans, Canadians were evil and Hitler and Stalin were sweethearts. And for our own good he bombed Amsterdam and Rotterdam because we were Aryan brothers and he wanted to save us from the evil Jews. I must stop now with my sarcasm cause I almost wanted to say Heil Hitler.
They were all misunderstood and sweet and playful.

Aww. Don't be sarcastic! Neither the English, Americans, Canadians et al were monsters. Most people are just credulous.

Modern day example. The bombing and invasion of the myriad of countries surrounding Israel. They are the "evil Germans" of our day, because the Jews that own the major media are still deceiving the nations into fighting wars on behalf of...the Jews. History never stopped on this aspect. But the body bags are Americans, Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanonese etc....not too many jews. And the debt for all these wars? Who's paying the lion share of that? The non-Israel nations, of course!

 

[Messy]

Aww. Don't be sarcastic! Neither the English, Americans, Canadians et al were monsters. Most people are just credulous.

Modern day example. The bombing and invasion of the myriad of countries surrounding Israel. They are the "evil Germans" of our day, because the Jews that own the major media are still deceiving the nations into fighting wars on behalf of...the Jews. History never stopped on this aspect. But the body bags are Americans, Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanonese etc....not too many jews. And the debt for all these wars? Who's paying the lion share of that? The non-Israel nations, of course!

Arafat was like his Nazi uncle. It is God's country.
Joël 3:2

2 bI will also gather all nations,
And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;
And I cwill enter into judgment with them there
On account of My people, My heritage Israel,
Whom they have scattered among the nations;
They have also divided up My land.

 

[Albion]

By the way in the thirties the Nazi's were already persecuting Jewish people. The brother from Corrie ten Boom went to a university there in the 30s and said that an evil was taking place there, antisemitism in study books. He saved a Jewish guy in the 30s, who came from Germany. They had put his beard on fire.

Oh, yes. And a long series of harassments decreed by the government, including, including such outrages as forbidding Jews from using public facilities, prohibiting Jews from living in heated buildings (!), prohibiting Jews from marrying non-Jews, and so on.

All of this preceded the "final solution" and so doesn't get remembered...and certainly not in fawning propaganda pieces like that video that was supposed to impress us.

 

[Messy]

Oh, yes. And a long series of harassments decreed by the government, including, including such outrages as forbidding Jews from using public facilities, prohibiting Jews from living in heated buildings (!), prohibiting Jews from marrying non-Jews, and so on.

All of this preceded the "final solution" and so doesn't get remembered...and certainly not in fawning propaganda pieces like that video that was supposed to impress us.

Everyone saw it. It's all documented. They saw their Jewish neighbours be driven from their homes. All these signs. Forbidden for Jews. In the beginning they didn't know what happened to them and thought they were sent to work camps. But almost noone came back and to now come up with that is just wilfully ignoring all the evidence. My dad has loads of books on WWII. Lou de Jong, let Holocaust deniers first go read that stuff. Lol and these books are only about the Netherlands.

 

[Lamb]

Closing this thread for 48 hours for a cool down.

 

[Lamb]

I have done a thread clean up and will keep this thread closed. Do not begin a similar one. If I missed any flames, please report them.