"The Bible Answer Man" converts to Orthodoxy

MoreCoffee

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Snerfle, The following is a chapter from the Decree in Ecumenism published 21st November 1964.
CHAPTER III

CHURCHES AND ECCLESIAL COMMUNITIES SEPARATED FROM THE ROMAN APOSTOLIC SEE

13. We now turn our attention to the two chief types of division as they affect the seamless robe of Christ.

The first divisions occurred in the East, when the dogmatic formulae of the Councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon were challenged, and later when ecclesiastical communion between the Eastern Patriarchates and the Roman See was dissolved.

Other divisions arose more than four centuries later in the West, stemming from the events which are usually referred to as "The Reformation." As a result, many Communions, national or confessional, were separated from the Roman See. Among those in which Catholic traditions and institutions in part continue to exist, the Anglican Communion occupies a special place.

These various divisions differ greatly from one another not only by reason of their origin, place and time, but especially in the nature and seriousness of questions bearing on faith and the structure of the Church. Therefore, without minimizing the differences between the various Christian bodies, and without overlooking the bonds between them which exist in spite of divisions, this holy Council decides to propose the following considerations for prudent ecumenical action.

II. Separated Churches and Ecclesial Communities in the West

19. In the great upheaval which began in the West toward the end of the Middle Ages, and in later times too, Churches and ecclesial Communities came to be separated from the Apostolic See of Rome. Yet they have retained a particularly close affinity with the Catholic Church as a result of the long centuries in which all Christendom lived together in ecclesiastical communion.

However, since these Churches and ecclesial Communities, on account of their different origins, and different teachings in matters of doctrine on the spiritual life, vary considerably not only with us, but also among themselves, the task of describing them at all adequately is extremely difficult; and we have no intention of making such an attempt here.

Although the ecumenical movement and the desire for peace with the Catholic Church have not yet taken hold everywhere, it is our hope that ecumenical feeling and mutual esteem may gradually increase among all men.

It must however be admitted that in these Churches and ecclesial Communities there exist important differences from the Catholic Church, not only of a historical, sociological, psychological and cultural character, but especially in the interpretation of revealed truth. To make easier the ecumenical dialogue in spite of these differences, we wish to set down some considerations which can, and indeed should, serve as a basis and encouragement for such dialogue.

20. Our thoughts turn first to those Christians who make open confession of Jesus Christ as God and Lord and as the sole Mediator between God and men, to the glory of the one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We are aware indeed that there exist considerable divergences from the doctrine of the Catholic Church concerning Christ Himself, the Word of God made flesh, the work of redemption, and consequently, concerning the mystery and ministry of the Church, and the role of Mary in the plan of salvation. But we rejoice to see that our separated brethren look to Christ as the source and center of Church unity. Their longing for union with Christ inspires them to seek an ever closer unity, and also to bear witness to their faith among the peoples of the earth.

21. A love and reverence of Sacred Scripture which might be described as devotion, leads our brethren to a constant meditative study of the sacred text. For the Gospel "is the power of God for salvation to every one who has faith, to the Jew first and then to the Greek".(39)

While invoking the Holy Spirit, they seek in these very Scriptures God as it were speaking to them in Christ, Whom the prophets foretold, Who is the Word of God made flesh for us. They contemplate in the Scriptures the life of Christ and what the Divine Master taught and did for our salvation, especially the mysteries of His death and resurrection.

But while the Christians who are separated from us hold the divine authority of the Sacred Books, they differ from ours - some in one way, some in another - regarding the relationship between Scripture and the Church. For, according to Catholic belief, the authentic teaching authority of the Church has a special place in the interpretation and preaching of the written word of God.

But Sacred Scriptures provide for the work of dialogue an instrument of the highest value in the mighty hand of God for the attainment of that unity which the Saviour holds out to all.

22. Whenever the Sacrament of Baptism is duly administered as Our Lord instituted it, and is received with the right dispositions, a person is truly incorporated into the crucified and glorified Christ, and reborn to a sharing of the divine life, as the Apostle says: "You were buried together with Him in Baptism, and in Him also rose again - through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead".(40)

Baptism therefore establishes a sacramental bond of unity which links all who have been reborn by it. But of itself Baptism is only a beginning, an inauguration wholly directed toward the fullness of life in Christ. Baptism, therefore, envisages a complete profession of faith, complete incorporation in the system of salvation such as Christ willed it to be, and finally complete ingrafting in eucharistic communion.

Though the ecclesial Communities which are separated from us lack the fullness of unity with us flowing from Baptism, and though we believe they have not retained the proper reality of the eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Orders, nevertheless when they commemorate His death and resurrection in the Lord's Supper, they profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and look forward to His coming in glory. Therefore the teaching concerning the Lord's Supper, the other sacraments, worship, the ministry of the Church, must be the subject of the dialogue.

23. The daily Christian life of these brethren is nourished by their faith in Christ and strengthened by the grace of Baptism and by hearing the word of God. This shows itself in their private prayer, their meditation on the Bible, in their Christian family life, and in the worship of a community gathered together to praise God. Moreover, their form of worship sometimes displays notable features of the liturgy which they shared with us of old.

Their faith in Christ bears fruit in praise and thanksgiving for the blessings received from the hands of God. Among them, too, is a strong sense of justice and a true charity toward their neighbor. This active faith has been responsible for many organizations for the relief of spiritual and material distress, the furtherance of the education of youth, the improvement of the social conditions of life, and the promotion of peace throughout the world.

While it is true that many Christians understand the moral teaching of the Gospel differently from Catholics, and do not accept the same solutions to the more difficult problems of modern society, nevertheless they share our desire to stand by the words of Christ as the source of Christian virtue, and to obey the command of the Apostle: "And whatever you do, in word or in work, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through Him".(41) For that reason an ecumenical dialogue might start with discussion of the application of the Gospel to moral conduct.

24. Now that we have briefly set out the conditions for ecumenical action and the principles by which it is to be directed, we look with confidence to the future. This Sacred Council exhorts the faithful to refrain from superficiality and imprudent zeal, which can hinder real progress toward unity. Their ecumenical action must be fully and sincerely Catholic, that is to say, faithful to the truth which we have received from the apostles and Fathers of the Church, in harmony with the faith which the Catholic Church has always professed, and at the same time directed toward that fullness to which Our Lord wills His Body to grow in the course of time.

It is the urgent wish of this Holy Council that the measures undertaken by the sons of the Catholic Church should develop in conjunction with those of our separated brethren so that no obstacle be put in the ways of divine Providence and no preconceived judgments impair the future inspirations of the Holy Spirit. The Council moreover professes its awareness that human powers and capacities cannot achieve this holy objective - the reconciling of all Christians in the unity of the one and only Church of Christ. It is because of this that the Council rests all its hope on the prayer of Christ for the Church, on our Father's love for us, and on the power of the Holy Spirit." And hope does not disappoint, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us".(42)

Each and all these matters which are set forth in this Decree have been favorably voted on by the Fathers of the Council. And We, by the apostolic authority given Us by Christ and in union with the Fathers, approve, decree and establish them in the Holy Spirit and command that they be promulgated for the glory of God.​
 

Lamb

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Orthodoxy is not the same as Catholicism...perhaps this thread should get back on topic? :)
 

Josiah

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BY FAR the largest 'spilt' in institutional Christianity happened in 1054 when the dominate European denomination split into the EOC and RCC (although functionally, the "split" happened centuries earlier).

IMO, the EOC is a far, far better alternative than the RCC. While I don't agree with this minister's change of membership to the EOC, I can understand it - as I noted earlier, there is much appealing there. He didn't convert to the RC denomination.
 

Romanos

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BY FAR the largest 'spilt' in institutional Christianity happened in 1054 when the dominate European denomination split into the EOC and RCC (although functionally, the "split" happened centuries earlier).

IMO, the EOC is a far, far better alternative than the RCC. While I don't agree with this minister's change of membership to the EOC, I can understand it - as I noted earlier, there is much appealing there. He didn't convert to the RC denomination.

Hi Josiah,

For any reading this thread, can you explain why you feel that way?

Thanks!
 

Josiah

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Hi Josiah,

For any reading this thread, can you explain why you feel that way?

Thanks!


The "East/West" divide was there from the start, and slowly grew. While Eastern Christianity had been hard hit by Islam and not as populous as before, still they made up a very large percentage of the world's Christians in 1054. So as the OFFICIAL split happened in 1054, the mutual excommunications flying, that was the biggest split in the (then) 1000 years of Christian history (the earlier split in 451 over the Two Natures of Christ involved far fewer people). When the RCC split itself in 1521, this didn't impact the East at all (only the RC Denomination) and it involved only about one-third of those in the RCC. Thus 1521 pales in comparison to the 1054 split.


Nearly all of the Doctrines which became problematic were unique to the RCC and are not shared by the EOC. True - the Eastern church views that a "change" happens in the Eucharist but doesn't hold to the RCC's dogma of transubstantiation. While the East holds to a more institutional view of the church, it doesn't hold to the "I'M The Church" and I'M infallible" dogma of the RCC. While the East as OPINION views that God IN SOME MYSTERIOUS WAY "purifies" believers instintely become entering heaven, it doesn't share the RCC's dogma of Purgatory. While the East shares SOME of the Marian dogmas of the RCC, it doesn't share them all and only one is dogmatic in the East. And while the East does teach the importance of holding to Tradition, it looks to the Councils for that rather than exclusively in the mirror to it itself as the RCC does. And while the East does believe that "norma normata" (as we'd call it) means it should not be debateable, it solidly rejects the whole INFALLIBLE Roman Pontiff claim and dogma that is the very foundation, keystone and point of the RCC. And much of Protestantism is very comfortable with the embrace of MYSTERY in the East with the humility of the East, and with the commendable lack of the POWER and INSTITUTION obsessions of the RC Denomination. On the other hand, much of Protestantism affirms original sin where we align more with the RCC and we tend to have atonement theories shared by Catholicsm and quite different that in Orthodoxy. BTW.... during the Reformation itself, both the EOC and Lutherans saw that we shared more with each other than with the RCC and there were "talks." Unfortunately, a "merger" didn't happen (the "issue" evidently was justification....and I don't think that could have been resolved) but the reality that both wanted those talks and that they happened seems to confirm my opinion here, IMO.


- Josiah
 
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