"The Bible Answer Man" converts to Orthodoxy

hedrick

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Of course there are conversions in all directions. Our congregation has lots of former Catholics in it.

However I've always thought conversions of evangelicals to Catholic or Orthodox makes sense. Many evangelicals believe in inerrancy because they think it will give them certainty. But it doesn't. In the end the only way to get certainty is a unified Church whose tradition is believed to be inerrant.

I don't think the kind of certainty they're looking for is possible, nor that it's even intended. Look at how Jesus taught: very little explicit doctrine, a teaching technique better suited to sparking personal reaction than theological precision. I think Christians are supposed to be a model for the world in how to maintain communion among people who disagree on things. Maintaining communion among people who agree on everything is easy: the world can do that.
 

Tigger

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I used to listen to his show years ago but then my schedule changed and wasn't able to any more. I was an E.O. Catechumen a couple of years ago and it had a profound impact on my understanding of the church and theology and would be more inclined to listening to Hank's show now as it is then if he had remained as he was.
 

MoreCoffee

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I used to listen to his show years ago but then my schedule changed and wasn't able to any more. I was an E.O. Catechumen a couple of years ago and it had a profound impact on my understanding of the church and theology and would be more inclined to listening to Hank's show now as it is than if he had remained as he was.

I think quite a few evangelicals are attracted by Orthodoxy.
 

Josiah

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Jeroslov Peliken (I'm SURE I'm misspelling that) - once a professor at Concordia - St. Louis and a major Luther scholar - also eventually converted to Eastern Orthodoxy. I have a good friend who is Greek Orthodox and we've chatted often, over several years now (we met in college). I can see where a Lutheran would see much good in Eastern Orthodoxy (and vise versa) and I sure can see the attraction many might have. As I've discussed with my friend, IF it reached out to the thirty plus MILLION ex-Catholics in the USA, I think many would be very blessed by the EOC (and they'd end up there rather than in pentecostalism, mega-church evangelicalism and above all nothingism where these MILLIONS tend to go). She tells me often if upon leaving the RCC, if I had visited an Orthodox Church (I never got around to that), I'd be an Orthodox priest today, lol. Who knows..... I've investigated it some and while I consider it a VAST, VAST better option than Catholicism, I guess I'm too Lutheran (LOL). While I think the EOC has some important things to teach Western Christianity, theologically I'm solidly Lutheran now.

I've heard of Hank and that radio show but I've never listened to it.


- Josiah
 

ImaginaryDay2

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I think quite a few evangelicals are attracted by Orthodoxy.

Imo, I think it's one of the "why are people leaving the Evangelical church" 'symptoms' that isn't being addressed. There's quite a bit of hand wringing over the exodus from Evangelical churches, but this particular phenomenon is either not on their maps, or is being deliberately ignored.

As far as Mr. Hanegraaff, I'm really not as surprised as I might have been a number of years ago. I've listened to his show a few times before, and he was solidly Evangelical, but was also quick to point out certain "errors" (e.g. the "Lakeland Outpouring"). And, I've listened to enough Catholic radio commentary featuring former Baptist minister converts to know it's not rare. :)
 
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user1234

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You, Josiah ??!! YOU?! REALLY?!
Theologically solidly Lutheran?
NOOooooooo!!! Nope nope nope!
Not buyin' it! No way! :;;D: :;;D: :;;D:

Yes, years ago I too listened to the BibleAnswerman with Hank.
Got his book Christianity in Crisis back then and thought it was pretty eye-opening.
But I was finding myself into all that kind of thing early on,
anything to do with cults, false-teachings both in an around the church,
stuff like that.
I didnt really aim for it, it's just where I was kind of finding myself, those types of materials just kept 'popping up' as a new (or re-newed) believer.

Back then I met Hank, visited him at a teaching at Tenth Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia years ago. Once the church of Donald Grey Barnhouse, and the Pastor there when I went was James Montgomery Boice who's since gone home to Jesus as well. (A couple of pretty good bible teachers, imo) Lol, extremely very!

Then I went years without hearing Hank, but recently heard him again on a new (to me) radio station. I thought, 'oh cool, I'll listen in again, see what's up in his world of apologetics and cult-watching' lol ..... Then, a couple weeks later, I heard he was switching to Orthodox.
Lol, umm, ok, fine by me, so now what?!
Hallelujah Anyhow!
God bless us, everyone! :)
 

IACOBVS

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Ten years ago, when I left Pentecostalism and chose Anglicanism, it was quite a shocking thing for many people, including those in the Anglican parish which I joined, and for the Roman Catholic bretheren and "sisteren" of the Roman Catholic parish with which we co-owned our church building at the time. My old Pentecostal church never bothered to follow up with me, though. But, maybe that was because I was already considered to be bad, and they were happy to be rid of me. However, more and more have joined the ranks of liturgically high churches over the years since, and I think that Pentecostals, "Evangelicals", and other myriad of fundamentalists may be starting to take notice. (I really dislike how they've co--opted the term "evangelical" as if they're the only ones who are that. Any church that is worth anything is evangelical.)
 

Tigger

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As an important side note, last I heard Mr. Hanegraff is under going chemotherapy due to cancer. Prayers for a quick and full recovery :eek:uch:

 

user1234

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As an important side note, last I heard Mr. Hanegraff is under going chemotherapy due to cancer. Prayers for a quick and full recovery :eek:uch:
Wow, hey thanks, Tigger , I didnt know about this... I just watched it now.

Heavenly Father, we lift up our brother Hank Hanegraaff to your throne of grace, to find grace and mercy in this time of need. We thank you, Lord, that we can come to you because of Jesus, and so we come to you in His great name and ask you for a miracle of your healing touch. You know Hank's situation, and as he asked for your will to be done, we ask and join our prayers with his with that in mind. May you be glorified throughout this situation, Lord. We pray for Hank's family and friends, for your grace to be with them for strength and comfort during this time, and for wisdom and the knowledge of Jesus for the medical staff attending to Hank's needs.
We pray and thank you for continuance of his ministry, as so many of us have received help from it in different ways.
We just thank you, Father, for your goodness and mercy, and the grace to trust in you.
We thank you, Lord, for your love, and praise you in Jesus' name. Amen.
 

Tigger

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ImaginaryDay2

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The article addressed some about his health challenges, and I watched the video link. He has a podcast now on iTunes that I've subscribed to. He's apparently still answering bible questions, but is also addressing his health issues as well as questions regarding his conversion. I haven't had a chance to listen, but will soon. It appears he's taking his 'loss' of airtime in stride, and making the most of other broadcast platforms, which is smart. He'll keep a core audience, and attract a new one at the same time.
 

MoreCoffee

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The article addressed some about his health challenges, and I watched the video link. He has a podcast now on iTunes that I've subscribed to. He's apparently still answering bible questions, but is also addressing his health issues as well as questions regarding his conversion. I haven't had a chance to listen, but will soon. It appears he's taking his 'loss' of airtime in stride, and making the most of other broadcast platforms, which is smart. He'll keep a core audience, and attract a new one at the same time.

Religion can be a harsh mistress. Loss of income may be troublesome for him.
 

Lamb

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I don't recall ever seeing/hearing this Bible Answer Man so of course I googled. Very interesting. He said in an answer to someone who questioned if he is now Christian that his beliefs have not changed. I find that curious since something obviously changed. I'm reading more about this now on other sites.

Do you think his listeners feel betrayed as if they've been misled all these years by his responses? Even though he claims his beliefs haven't changed, how could they not have?
 

MoreCoffee

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I don't recall ever seeing/hearing this Bible Answer Man so of course I googled. Very interesting. He said in an answer to someone who questioned if he is now Christian that his beliefs have not changed. I find that curious since something obviously changed. I'm reading more about this now on other sites.

Do you think his listeners feel betrayed as if they've been misled all these years by his responses? Even though he claims his beliefs haven't changed, how could they not have?

Having come from an evangelical background he is used to concepts like "essential Christianity" and the idea of a bare minimum needed for salvation so when he says "my beliefs have not changed" he is likely referring to the essentials. It is obvious that his bible is bigger now and that sola scriptura is not one of his current beliefs. He likely will abandon a number of evangelical fundamentals too. Though how fundamental they are is hard to judge because each group has its own distinctive beliefs and sometimes those distinctive beliefs are identified with the fundamentals. That is why many will be expressing doubt and disappointment at his change. For them his change is a kind of betrayal and they may not be able to accept him as a brother any more. The same happens when an evangelical becomes a Catholic - and vice versa to a degree.
 

atpollard

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. The same happens when an evangelical becomes a Catholic - and vice versa to a degree.

"to a degree" ... Can one abandon the Roman Catholic Church and still be a 'christian brother' according to the Roman Catholic Church? My understanding that the official position of the RCC is that there is no salvation outside of the RCC. Did they change that position?
 

MoreCoffee

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"to a degree" ... Can one abandon the Roman Catholic Church and still be a 'christian brother' according to the Roman Catholic Church? My understanding that the official position of the RCC is that there is no salvation outside of the RCC. Did they change that position?

One can leave the Catholic Church and remain a Christian. I do not say it is easy or healthy.
 

user1234

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"to a degree" ... Can one abandon the Roman Catholic Church and still be a 'christian brother' according to the Roman Catholic Church? My understanding that the official position of the RCC is that there is no salvation outside of the RCC. Did they change that position?

One can leave the Catholic Church and remain a Christian. I do not say it is easy or healthy.
*Picked up from Wikipedia, my hilights in red,
will submit in pieces in more posts.

>>>The Catholic Church teaches that Christ instituted only one Church, and that this Church of Jesus Christ is itself the Catholic Church founded and divinely established by Jesus Christ, God the Son made man, upon the rock of Saint Peter. It is also taught to be the single source and universal fount of salvation for mankind, and that outside of herself there is no salvation, for she alone possesses the full truth of Jesus Christ and she is the pillar and foundation of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15).

The Fourth Lateran Council declared that: "There is one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which there is absolutely no salvation",[SUP][1][/SUP] a statement of what is known as the doctrine ofextra Ecclesiam nulla salus.

This is the teaching known in English as "outside the Church there is no salvation", meaning that as the Catholic Church is the one true Church of Christ, just as only by the name of Jesus Christ can one find salvation (Acts 4:12), so also, only in Christ's Church can one be saved. The Church is further described in the papal encyclical Mystici corporis Christias the "Mystical Body of Christ".[SUP][2]
[/SUP]

According to the Catechism, the Catholic Church professes to be the "sole Church of Christ", which is described in the Nicene Creed as the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.[SUP][3][/SUP] This teaching was originally formulated at the Council of Nicea (AD 325) at which time the Apostle's Creed (the basis for the Nicene Creed) had been ratified.

The Church teaches that only the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ, who appointed the Twelve Apostles to continue his work as the Church's earliestbishops.[SUP][4][/SUP] Catholic belief holds that the Church "is the continuing presence of Jesus on earth",[SUP][5][/SUP] and that all duly consecrated bishops have a lineal succession from the apostles.[SUP][6][/SUP]

In particular, the Bishop of Rome (the Pope), is considered the successor to the apostle Simon Peter, from whom the Pope derives his supremacy over the Church.[SUP][7][/SUP] The Church is further described in the papal encyclical Mystici corporis Christi as the Mystical Body of Christ.[SUP][8][/SUP]

Thus, the Catholic Church holds that "the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic ... This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society,subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him."[SUP][9]
[/SUP]

In the encyclical Mortalium animos of 6 January 1928, Pope Pius XI wrote that "in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors" and quoted the statement of Lactantius: "The Catholic Church is alone in keeping the true worship.

This is the fount of truth, this the house of Faith, this the temple of God: if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation."[SUP][10][/SUP] Accordingly, the Second Vatican Council declared: "Whosoever, [...] knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.[SUP][11][/SUP]

In the same document, the Council continued: "The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter."[SUP][12][/SUP]

And in a decree on ecumenism, Unitatis redintegratio, it stated: "Catholics must gladly acknowledge and esteem the truly Christian endowments from our common heritage which are to be found among our separated brethren. It is right and salutary to recognise the riches of Christ and virtuous works in the lives of others who are bearing witness to Christ, sometimes even to the shedding of their blood. For God is always wonderful in His works and worthy of all praise."[SUP][13]
[/SUP]

Pope Eugene IV, in his Papal Bull of 1441, Cantate Domino, taught ex-cathedra: "The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and proclaims that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, heretics, and schismatics can ever be partakers of life eternal, but that they are to go into the eternal fire 'which was prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matthew 25:41)

unless before their death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as they may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.....
(more to come>>>)
 

user1234

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In his 1863 encyclical letter to the bishops of Italy, Pope Pius IX wrote: "Well known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff".

In the same letter, he said: "There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace since God who clearly beholds, searches, and knows the minds, souls, thoughts, and habits of all men, because of His great goodness and mercy, will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin."

He added: "God forbid that the children of the Catholic Church should even in any way be unfriendly to those who are not at all united to us by the same bonds of faith and love. On the contrary, let them be eager always to attend to their needs with all the kind services of Christian charity, whether they are poor or sick or suffering any other kind of visitation.

First of all, let them rescue them from the darkness of the errors into which they have unhappily fallen and strive to guide them back to Catholic truth and to their most loving Mother who is ever holding out her maternal arms to receive them lovingly back into her fold.

Thus, firmly founded in faith, hope, and charity and fruitful in every good work, they will gain eternal salvation."

The 2000 declaration Dominus Iesus of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith states that "it must be firmly believed that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door."
The Church does, however, in believing baptism is necessary for salvation (John 3:5) believe that one can enter the Church through baptism of desire, either an explicit or implicit desire. Regarding an implicit desire, the Church has always used the principal that if one is innocent by ignorance to the truth, then they are not guilty of any sin and will not be held guilty for what they, through no fault of their own, did not know.

In regard to explicit desire, the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, "For catechumens [those instructed in the Catholic faith who are preparing to be baptised into the Catholic Church] who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament" (CCC 1259).

In one of the preperatory schemas for the [[Second Vatican Council|Second Ecumenical Council of the Vatican], this was written regarding baptism of desire: "As for those ordered by desire towards the Church, these include not only catechumens, who, moved by the Spirit, consciously and explicitly desire to enter the Church, but also those who, even if not knowing that the Catholic Church is the true and sole Church of Christ, still, by God's grace, implicitly and unknowingly desire the equivalent, either because they sincerely will what Christ himself wills or because, though ignorant of Christ, they sincerely desire to fulfill the will of God their Creator. The gifts of heavenly grace will never be wanting to those who sincerely desire and ask to be renewed by the divine light".
This preparatory document was revised to become the Constitution Lumen Gentium, which said: "Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel. She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life.

But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator. Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, "Preach the Gospel to every creature", the Church fosters the missions with care and attention."

This is why the doctrine that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church is so essential to Catholic doctrine, it is inter-entwined in the doctrine of the one true Church.
 
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