Tax exemption and corruption

[tango]

Many non-profit, Christian, organizations get significant funding via the government. This includes most Christian higher education institutions. Much of the problem is with non-profit organizations that misappropriate the money they receive. For example, there have been Somali day care centers in Minnesota that have apparently been siphoning some of the government funding and passing it on to ISIS in Somalia. The opportunity for fraud is high. This simply proves that all humans are corrupt.

I'm not sure how you got from "some day care centrers have apparently been siphoning ... funding" to "all humans are corrupt". Logically it makes no more sense than "folks at Westboro Baptist Church apparently hate gay people" being used to claim "all Christians hate gay people".

 

[tango]

So what is the Tax Rate for a church? Tax rates are set locally, but in general, farms and vacant land are taxed at one rate. Residences are taxed at 10x the rate of vacant land. Commercial property is taxed at 10x the rate of residences. If the local community (like Clearwater, FL) wanted to get rid of the Church of Scientology, they could tax churches at 10x the Commercial rate. So a 1 acre farm pays $100 in taxes, a 1 acre house pays $1000 in taxes, a 1 acre business pays $10,000 in taxes and a 1 acre church pays $100,000 in taxes.

Now getting rid of the Church of Scientology would be a good thing, but do we really want the government deciding which churches to eliminate?

Forcing a church building to shut down doesn't prevent the former attendees from freely practising their religion though. If all churches are treated the same there would be nothing that favored one religion over another.

Ultimately it goes back to my earlier point about how if governments just got out of the way instead of looking to tax everything in sight there would be less of an issue in the first place. Why does government get to tax ownership of property every year anyway?

 

[tango]

Let churches pay the same tax rates as individuals or corporations that pay tax on their income/profits. Clearly churches make profits (after expenses) from their income in "tithes" and "donations". Let the churches work the same way others work. If they make a profit and keep it then they pay tax and if they make a profit and give it to the poor then no tax on what they give away. Simple and fair is it not?

Except that if their "income" comes from donations that have already been taxed once there's arguably no reason why the state should get to tax it again.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Except that if their "income" comes from donations that have already been taxed once there's arguably no reason why the state should get to tax it again.

Company profits come from money paid by clients and customers that has already been taxed but does anybody think that means it is unfair to tax the company's profits? If you say no then the same applies to donations given to churches and if the church keeps the money rather than giving it away to charities then why should it be tax exempt any more than the profits of a company?

 

[psalms 91]

Company profits come from money paid by clients and customers that has already been taxed but does anybody think that means it is unfair to tax the company's profits? If you say no then the same applies to donations given to churches and if the church keeps the money rather than giving it away to charities then why should it be tax exempt any more than the profits of a company?

Most of the big companies dont pay taxes anyway. They have gamed the system by lobbying for tax pbreaks that the average person doesnt have. Quite a few of them pay nothing, part of the problem.

 

[tango]

Company profits come from money paid by clients and customers that has already been taxed but does anybody think that means it is unfair to tax the company's profits? If you say no then the same applies to donations given to churches and if the church keeps the money rather than giving it away to charities then why should it be tax exempt any more than the profits of a company?

I think that overall the tax system should be massively overhauled because, as you say, the way things stand the same money gets taxed over and over and over again.

Since a corporation can deduct the costs of what it buys before paying taxes, and apparently "corporations are people", one has to ask why people can't deduct the cost of what they buy before paying taxes as well.

 

[tango]

Most of the big companies dont pay taxes anyway. They have gamed the system by lobbying for tax pbreaks that the average person doesnt have. Quite a few of them pay nothing, part of the problem.

Many of the tax breaks are theoretically available to anyone, it's just a question of whether the costs of exploiting it are worth the savings achieved.

For the average working person the costs of setting up a shell company in Lichtenstein owned by a holding company in Panama vastly outweigh the taxes that would be saved by doing so.

In principle companies don't pay taxes, only consumers pay taxes. Whatever taxes are levied against a company ultimately get passed on to consumers one way or another.

 

[psalms 91]

Yup, that explains the unGodly profits some of them make while the prices are so high. I know it isnt popular but I wonder if a company m,akes so much over their costs at some point perhaps the tax should be 100 per cent thus giving that company incentive to lower prices and treat their workers beter.

 

[tango]

Yup, that explains the unGodly profits some of them make while the prices are so high. I know it isnt popular but I wonder if a company m,akes so much over their costs at some point perhaps the tax should be 100 per cent thus giving that company incentive to lower prices and treat their workers beter.

The trouble is that tax usually does little more than distort the market. If you're a large corporation there are many ways to avoid paying taxes and, since each corporation is usually set up as a separate legal entity, it's probably not all that hard to merely create subsidiary and sister corporations to spread the wealth around.

Government regulation is sometimes a good thing but usually it's best to get out of the way and let the market correct itself. If government puts too many barriers to entry all it does is mean that the people who have cleared that hurdle once have less competition and therefore less incentive to be competitive.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Tax exemption for religions is way too open to corrupt abuses. It ought to be curtailed.

 

[tango]

Tax exemption for religions is way too open to corrupt abuses. It ought to be curtailed.

Fewer taxes in the first place would take away much of the need for tax exemption.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Fewer taxes in the first place would take away much of the need for tax exemption.

Fewer taxes does not necessarily imply less tax is paid. One single tax that included all the funds raised in sales tax, land tax, income tax, death duties, and all the other taxes that governments levy would be scarily big! It would be The Tax at a rate of about 50% of economic activity especially if the USA wants to maintain the enormous armed forces it has and some of the other massively expensive programs it has that subsidise industry and private individuals. The Tax would hit religious bodies particularly hard.

 

[tango]

Fewer taxes does not necessarily imply less tax is paid. One single tax that included all the funds raised in sales tax, land tax, income tax, death duties, and all the other taxes that governments levy would be scarily big! It would be The Tax at a rate of about 50% of economic activity especially if the USA wants to maintain the enormous armed forces it has and some of the other massively expensive programs it has that subsidise industry and private individuals. The Tax would hit religious bodies particularly hard.

Fewer taxes would reduce the cost of compliance with the tax. Personally I think the government should be doing less in general and getting out of the way a lot more.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Fewer taxes would reduce the cost of compliance with the tax. Personally I think the government should be doing less in general and getting out of the way a lot more.

But will you still want police and fire protection as well as ambulance and hospital services and what about roads, bridges, electricity, gas, water, and all the other services mainly provided by government or regulated by government?

 

[tango]

But will you still want police and fire protection as well as ambulance and hospital services and what about roads, bridges, electricity, gas, water, and all the other services mainly provided by government or regulated by government?

Just catching up here....

I'm not talking about eliminating taxes. As you quite rightly say there are some things that need to be organised centrally and someone has to provide them. I'm talking about reducing the size of government, reducing its reach into our lives and reducing the amount of money it takes from us in order to function.

 

[MennoSota]

For the life of me, I fail to see how this topic relates to theology...

 

[MoreCoffee]

For the life of me, I fail to see how this topic relates to theology...

The first post explains the matter and why it is theology.

 

[MennoSota]

The first post explains the matter and why it is theology.

Then return to the topic and express the theological opinions regarding taxes. Otherwise this thread has nothing to do with theoogy.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Then return to the topic and express the theological opinions regarding taxes. Otherwise this thread has nothing to do with theoogy.

Perhaps you'd like to do that.

Happy birthday by the way