Some Lutherans don't believe Jesus is God

[MennoSota]

Ah, so you've personally spoken to or reached out to those people from that closed thread where you quoted them? Or are you just talking behind their backs?

I've stated it outright and been reprimanded.

 

[MennoSota]

One of the problems I note is that people who love their denomination first will defend denomination over scripture.

 

[Lamb]

I've stated it outright and been reprimanded.

Here is the post with the names of the people: http://christianityhaven.com/showth...elieve-Jesus-is-God/page2&p=124703#post124703

Now, have you contacted them personally? Invited them here to defend themselves?

 

[MennoSota]

Here is the post with the names of the people: http://christianityhaven.com/showth...elieve-Jesus-is-God/page2&p=124703#post124703

Now, have you contacted them personally? Invited them here to defend themselves?

No, I haven't. The two who I have called out are welcome to come to this open thread and we can directly deal with their heresy in public.

 

[Lamb]

No, I haven't. The two who I have called out are welcome to come to this open thread and we can directly deal with their heresy in public.

Go ahead and send them an invitation.

 

[MennoSota]

Go ahead and send them an invitation.

Go ahead and call out the Lutherans who deny Jesus is God.
The two I speak of are lurking. They know they are welcome to come defend their heresy.

 

[NewCreation435]

And I think we should focus on our OWN parish (and perhaps denomination) rather than taking cheap shots at others.... We MAY have some means and ability to do something about our home.... perhaps not so much of someone else's.

Yes, I agree.... sloppy and bad theology is spreading like a plague - in ALL of Christianity, and IMO this is primarily because of the rise of relativism and pragmatism (increasingly folks don't care about Truth - or even believe such exists). I decry this (and I'm sure MennoSota and most here at CH do, too). But I think we can effect that as we address those we know, those in our own family and church and denomination.... I find it, well..... not helpful at best... to shout "But those ANGLICANS - what a MESS that all them is, what a HORRIBLE, HERETICAL bunch that denomination is!" Maybe we should spend a little time looking in the mirror, dealing with our own stuff.

And I might add: Perfection among Christians (and their parishes, and the denominations of parishes) is hard to come by.



- Josiah

I think that is the best approach. To carefully listen and examine what the pastor is preaching and to say something if you disagree. Some pastors preach off of books they read and not even the Bible. They think it sounded good to them so they preach it. But, they don't do their own study. I know when I met my wife 25 years ago we were in a Baptist church where the pastor had been for quite a while. My wife (who I was then engaged to) would write the dates down next to passages the pastor would preach and comments. She told me that the pastor had preached for one passage three times and it sounded the same as last time. He simply wasn't doing his study anymore and dusting off old sermon notes.
This is part of why so many christians today are biblically illiterate. They haven't studied the Bible on their own. They don't know falsehood when they hear it. It comes down to a lack of priorities to study it because there has never been a time in history when there are more resources out there to study God's word and for free.

 

[NewCreation435]

No, I haven't. The two who I have called out are welcome to come to this open thread and we can directly deal with their heresy in public.

I'm curious about why you are just talking about Lutherans? Out of how many dozens of denominations out there that have false teachers in their pulpits. If we listed the names it would go to the moon and back

 

[MennoSota]

I'm curious about why you are just talking about Lutherans? Out of how many dozens of denominations out there that have false teachers in their pulpits. If we listed the names it would go to the moon and back

We can talk about the many denominations that deny Jesus is God. If a certain CH member who came to the locked thread wishes to post, s/he can tell us why s/he denies the deity of Christ.

 

[NewCreation435]

We can talk about the many denominations that deny Jesus is God. If a certain CH member who came to the locked thread wishes to post, s/he can tell us why s/he denies the deity of Christ.

Oh wow, I can't believe you wrote that.

 

[Lamb]

We can talk about the many denominations that deny Jesus is God. If a certain CH member who came to the locked thread wishes to post, s/he can tell us why s/he denies the deity of Christ.

There were 4 Lutherans who posted in your other thread and none deny the deity of Christ. I think you might be confusing a member who is marked Deist as his icon? In that case there is no reason for you to continue trying to call someone out in a so-called Lutheran thread when it doesn't even deal with any of the existing Lutherans on the site.

 

[MennoSota]

Oh wow, I can't believe you wrote that.

Why is that. The person is pretty open about it.

 

[MennoSota]

There were 4 Lutherans who posted in your other thread and none deny the deity of Christ. I think you might be confusing a member who is marked Deist as his icon? In that case there is no reason for you to continue trying to call someone out in a so-called Lutheran thread when it doesn't even deal with any of the existing Lutherans on the site.

I never said s/he was a Lutheran, but s/he posted at the very beginning of the thread, I believe.

 

[Lamb]

I never said s/he was a Lutheran, but s/he posted at the very beginning of the thread, I believe.

There's no reason for that person to post here in this thread then. I mean, why post in a thread about Lutherans? Why not get back to what you were complaining about which is that you found 3 people online who are ELCA and their teaching is false and so you want the rest of Lutherans to do something about it. Except you don't see that we aren't connected except by name of Lutheran. It's like you complaining about California and expect me, who lives in a different state, to do something about it.

 

[NewCreation435]

Why is that. The person is pretty open about it.

I'm just wondering why you felt the need to go there. This is a thread about Lutherans. And I totally believe that your telling the truth by the way about your quotes from seminary or professors who deny the deity of Christ. It happens in liberal colleges and seminaries. I have heard of that kind of thing before. I'm sure there is a much longer list than what you have given the forum. But, that being the case what to do about that? I'm not in a position to do much of anything about it. The people who pay the bills for the seminary are. For Baptists, that is the local church membership. They are the ones who designate the funds for the seminaries. So, if the churches decided to cut that seminary off if it didn't reform then they would change. Cutting their funding off would get their attention.

A few weeks ago I mentioned a pastor at the church I grew up in that has preached some heresy recently. Even though I am not a member, I once was. I wrote to the bishop and told him what was going on and then it is in his court about what to do about it. He has the real authority and responsbility to do something about it. Not me.

 

[MennoSota]

There's no reason for that person to post here in this thread then. I mean, why post in a thread about Lutherans? Why not get back to what you were complaining about which is that you found 3 people online who are ELCA and their teaching is false and so you want the rest of Lutherans to do something about it. Except you don't see that we aren't connected except by name of Lutheran. It's like you complaining about California and expect me, who lives in a different state, to do something about it.

It's not a complaint. It's a fact. Lutheran Seminaries are teaching and producing people who deny the deity of Christ.

 

[Lamb]

It's not a complaint. It's a fact. Lutheran Seminaries are teaching and producing people who deny the deity of Christ.

No, you're overgeneralizing. That's like my saying that since the biggest nationalities of people in Minnesota are German that all Minnesotans are German. Then I can say that since some of those were nazis that Minnesotans are Nazis. Do you see how overgeneralized statements become fallacies?

 

[Lamb]

Today's Logical Fallacy is...Overgeneralization!

"A type of association fallacy, this occurs when you draw a conclusion without sufficient evidence, often using one or two examples as a basis of judgment for all examples. It is frequently applied to group behavior in assuming that the behavior displayed by some is indicative or unique to that entire group when it is actually common to many groups. A small incidence is mistaken for a larger trend."

 

[MennoSota]

No, you're overgeneralizing. That's like my saying that since the biggest nationalities of people in Minnesota are German that all Minnesotans are German. Then I can say that since some of those were nazis that Minnesotans are Nazis. Do you see how overgeneralized statements become fallacies?

It's not a generalization when the leaders of ELCA seminaries are quoted.
I never used a universal statement. That was attributed to me by a person who was offended that I accurately pointed out Lutherans who deny the deity of Christ and teach it to their students.

 

[Josiah]

It's not a generalization when the leaders of ELCA seminaries are quoted.

A quote requires the full creditation...

Again, saying one does not endorse a particular atonement theory is not heresy and is not unlutheran....

So far, I just see gossip.... and just by one or two people at that. That doesn't make all 3.5 million people and 9000 congregations guilty of heresy - IF you proved the quote authentic, it MIGHT show one or two persons unorthodox and not in full compliance with the Book of Concord. I wouldn't be shocked if one or two people in your denomination were not in full compliance with everything in the Reformed Confessions and documents..... Do you want us to waste our time looking to all the preachers in all denominations with "Reformed" or "Presbyterian" in their denominational name or some historic link to such? Of course not.

NONE here at CH have any ability to correct anyone in the ELCA, anymore than you do. If they need to be corrected, why don't YOU do it? Neither you nor anyone here is a parish of the ELCA, so you have EXACTLY the same ability to act here as any here....

I think you need to be more focused on your own denomination than take cheap shots at others .... You CAN (perhaps!!!) do something about the folks in your parish and denomination. None here can do more than you can about these internet rumors about two or three people among the 3.5 million in the ELCA.



- Josiah