So you have doubts about ... the Holy Trinity

[MoreCoffee]

Okay, some folk have doubts about the truth of the doctrine of the holy Trinity. What do we do? Browbeat them into submission (probably resentful submission)? Patiently teach them the truth (what we think is the truth anyway)? Discuss their doubts? Have a debate? What?

The Catholic Church has taught the dogma of the Blessed Trinity from some time before the first council at Nicea (possibly from the very beginning of the gospel). Arius taught against the doctrine of the Trinity from some time before the first Nicene council and Rabbinic Judaism always taught an absolute unity (oneness) of God in direct contradiction of the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. So ... what steps make sense in discussing this matter? Any suggestions?

 

[Rens]

Doesn't matter what they believe. Was Jesus one Person or 3? He was the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit in one Body. I really can't blame people for believing He was one Person. How Michael Brown explains the Trinity to Jewish rabbi's is smart and great.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Doesn't matter what they believe. Was Jesus one Person or 3? He was the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit in one Body. I really can't blame people for believing He was one Person. How Michael Brown explains the Trinity to Jewish rabbi's is smart and great.

Why doesn't it matter?

 

[Rens]

Why doesn't it matter?

It doesn't matter for salvation except when they believe Jesus is an angel or something.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[Lamb]

When you reject a part of who God is, you reject Him in His entirety. At that point you're believing in a false god who doesn't exist.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Doesn't matter what they believe. Was Jesus one Person or 3? He was the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit in one Body. I really can't blame people for believing He was one Person. How Michael Brown explains the Trinity to Jewish rabbi's is smart and great.

Ah, but it does. If the foundation is shaky, then what follows is not on solid ground. For the time I spent in a 'Oneness' Pentecostal church, there were some great "truths" I learned (not everything was error). But their view was a carry-over from what MC mentioned in the OP - that there was "an absolute unity of God". The idea of three "Persons" was heresy to them.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It doesn't matter for salvation except when they believe Jesus is an angel or something.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

So believing Jesus is a creature is a matter that affects a person's salvation but believing that God the Father is in fact Jesus Christ and hence that the Father died on the cross does not?

 

[Rens]

So believing Jesus is a creature is a matter that affects a person's salvation but believing that God the Father is in fact Jesus Christ and hence that the Father died on the cross does not?

Lol yes one guy said that. I was like: What??? The Father died???
I just don't think it matters if someone believes He is one Person with 3 forms. I think He is one Person and also 3 Persons. Well 3 but They are so in unity that I understand people don't see it.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Also, the "Romans Road" version of salvation is nicely shot down by the 'Oneness' crowd (not really, but let's play along...) -

"Romans was clearly written as an Epistle to churches that were already established. The audience was those who had already received the salvation message, had repented, had been baptized in Jesus' name, and had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (evidenced by speaking in tongues). They would not have needed the message preached to them again. Paul was only re-affirming what they already knew, so the Epistle to the Romans was never intended to convey the complete salvation message".

Pretty neat, huh?

 

[Rens]

Sinbad explains the Trinity perfectly.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6-AMDN4OG8

 

[Rens]

Also, the "Romans Road" version of salvation is nicely shot down by the 'Oneness' crowd (not really, but let's play along...) -

"Romans was clearly written as an Epistle to churches that were already established. The audience was those who had already received the salvation message, had repented, had been baptized in Jesus' name, and had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (evidenced by speaking in tongues). They would not have needed the message preached to them again. Paul was only re-affirming what they already knew, so the Epistle to the Romans was never intended to convey the complete salvation message".

Pretty neat, huh?

Oh eeeww weird.
Michael Brown is a Trinitarian but I don't know if I agree with his explanation, but if Jews get saved this way I'm like: Who cares? Preach it. It's blasphemy to them to say God is three Persons, so you have to be real smart to reach them.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_HaPRccvPLc

 

[MoreCoffee]

Doesn't matter what they believe. Was Jesus one Person or 3? He was the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit in one Body.

Jesus is one person. He's not three persons. Jesus is not the Father nor is Jesus the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus is also the Son of God. He is God yet he is not the Father and he is not the Holy Spirit.

I really can't blame people for believing He was one Person. How Michael Brown explains the Trinity to Jewish rabbi's is smart and great.

 

[Rens]

Jesus is one person. He's not three persons. Jesus is not the Father nor is Jesus the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus is also the Son of God. He is God yet he is not the Father and he is not the Holy Spirit.

Yes but the Father and Holy Spirit were in Him. There were 3 Persons in one Body. In Him the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes but the Father and Holy Spirit were in Him. There were 3 Persons in one Body. In Him the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily.

The sentence "In Him the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily." means "In him, in bodily form, lives divinity in all its fullness". It does not mean that three persons are in Christ.

 

[Rens]

The sentence "In Him the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily." means "In him, in bodily form, lives divinity in all its fullness". It does not mean that three persons are in Christ.

He said I am in the Father and the Father is in Me. He was filled in the Holy Spirit before starting His ministry. They worked together. He only spoke what the Father said. Show us the Father. Do you not know me Philip? and the Spirit did the miracles, Jesus spoke.
I have 4 persons in me: Father, Son, Holy Spirit and me. John 14 I think it was. We will come to him. I always heard that the Holy Spirit was on earth and Jesus and the Father in heaven. That's nonsense.

 

[MoreCoffee]

He said I am in the Father and the Father is in Me. He was filled in tge Holy Spirit before starting His ministry. They worked together. He only spoke what the Father said. Show us the Father. Do you not know me Philip? and the Spirit did the miracles, Jesus spoke.
I have 4 persons in me: Father, Son, Holy Spirit and me. John 14 I think it was. We will come to him. I always heard that the Holy Spirit was on earth and Jesus and the Father in heaven. That's nonsense.

The passage in John 14 is interesting. What do you think "in me" means? The passage says this:

John 14:8-11 [8] Philip said, 'Lord, show us the Father and then we shall be satisfied.' Jesus said to him, [9] 'Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? 'Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so how can you say, "Show us the Father"? [10] Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? What I say to you I do not speak of my own accord: it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his works. [11] You must believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe it on the evidence of these works.​

 

[Rens]

The passage in John 14 is interesting. What do you think "in me" means? The passage says this:

John 14:8-11 [8] Philip said, 'Lord, show us the Father and then we shall be satisfied.' Jesus said to him, [9] 'Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? 'Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so how can you say, "Show us the Father"? [10] Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? What I say to you I do not speak of my own accord: it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his works. [11] You must believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe it on the evidence of these works.​

That they're not apart, literally in Me, in each other, although Stephen saw them also next to each other:

But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!

 

[MoreCoffee]

That they're not apart, literally in Me, in each other, although Stephen saw them also next to each other:

But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!

What do you think "in you" and "in me" means in the following passage?

John 14:18-24 [18] I shall not leave you orphans; I shall come to you. [19] In a short time the world will no longer see me; but you will see that I live and you also will live. [20] On that day you will know that I am in my Father and you in me and I in you. [21] Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' [22] Judas -- not Judas Iscariot -- said to him, 'Lord, what has happened, that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?' [23] Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him. [24] Anyone who does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not my own: it is the word of the Father who sent me.​

 

[Rens]

What do you think "in you" and "in me" means in the following passage?

John 14:18-24 [18] I shall not leave you orphans; I shall come to you. [19] In a short time the world will no longer see me; but you will see that I live and you also will live. [20] On that day you will know that I am in my Father and you in me and I in you. [21] Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' [22] Judas -- not Judas Iscariot -- said to him, 'Lord, what has happened, that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?' [23] Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him. [24] Anyone who does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not my own: it is the word of the Father who sent me.​

the same They're all in me and I in Him lol He's a bit bigger.

 

[MoreCoffee]

the same They're all in me and I in Him lol He's a bit bigger.

Yeah many billions now. ... If "in me" means another person in Jesus. Do you think that "in me" does me another person in Jesus?