Second coming signs and Resurrection

[Andrew]

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place," (whoso readeth, let him understand
Matthew 24:15

Not sure but I think the last part about reading was added or unless God divinely inspired the writer to add that..

but why would Jesus tell the disciple Mathew that he/Mathew will see these things happen if Mathew would not actually live to see it?

Paul was prepared and hints that he believes it was going to happen in his time but he also did not live to see it, so far no one has seen Christ riding in on the clouds of glory.

Jesus took captivity captive so now the paradise that was apart of hades is taken up with him to the thrown of God/3rd Heaven or just "Heaven", do you believe that unlike the dead we WILL be able to see worldly events?
Also Moses and Elijah was talking to Jesus, did they already have resurrected bodies or were they Spirit?

I know it's several questions, as you can see I no longer believe the OT version of Hades (good and bad separated/torment GULF paradise) applies anymore after Christs 3 days in the heart of the Earth and taking paradise captive into Heaven... the unrighteous go to Hell and the righteous to Heaven.. I guess the thread is about the resurrection of the dead.. resurrected into Heaven upon death or resurrected from the grave onto Earth and then caught up into Heaven? Which is it? Judgment straight after death individually or is their a universal judgment and resurrection on that great and terrible day?

Personally I don't believe in sleep as unconscious, I believe the body sleeps as bones but the spirit is with the Lord and that spirit has a new body (not dead means bones), yet Heaven is outside of time so I believe we bypass Earth time and assume the bodily resurrection and judgment upon death. This would make sense why Jesus says that they would all see him in glory coming from the clouds (being met in the air/sky/heaven/ungrounded)

Sorry for the sporadic post I'm just lost in wonder lol like to hear your ideas on this matter

 

[Andrew]

[MENTION=1032]Michael[/MENTION]

 

[Albion]

What is the name for the branch of Christianity that does not accept the Bible as written and does not have any other guidance system such as Holy Tradition?

Unitarianism?? onder:

 

[Andrew]

What is the name for the branch of Christianity that does not accept the Bible as written and does not have any other guidance system such as Holy Tradition?

Unitarianism?? onder:

Im lost, what are you getting at?

 

[Michael]

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place," (whoso readeth, let him understand
Matthew 24:15

Not sure but I think the last part about reading was added or unless God divinely inspired the writer to add that..

but why would Jesus tell the disciple Mathew that he/Mathew will see these things happen if Mathew would not actually live to see it?

Hi Andrew. Very good questions. Let me address first the first point you brought up…

Looking at Jesus entire answer to the Apostle’s question, I believe the last portion of Matt 24:15 is there by the Spirit of God, as Jesus’ Word was for us (who read it now) even more than it was for His disciples back then. But even as He spoke more concerning future events corporately, His warning and promise has been to the saints throughout the ages, individually.

For other than the persecution of the His closest followers back then, the events of vs Matt 24:4-14 have not yet happened; at least not to the extent prophesied. Vs 12-14, in particular, have been occurring in part, and are increasing, but the “fullness of sin” is not yet; the great “apostasy” (the falling away of the majority of the church) is still to come; and the “gospel” of these certain events has not yet reached the “whole world” (including most of the church). So, as Jesus said… “the end is not yet.”

The “understanding” of Jesus teaching in Matthew 24 has indeed been grasped by a few over the last 2000 years, and that understanding has helped them to “endure” even in the midst of great trouble and persecution, but the many in the churches remain blind as they are still desperately clinging to their carnal nature.
So how does one who understands, “endure”? By remaining faithful even in the face of death, faithful till their end. For God must test each one whom Christ has “chosen” (from among the “called”), if they are to receive the promises of Rev 2 & 3.

Several times in the NT letters, we are told that what happened to Israel in the Exodus and wilderness is the example of our Journey toward our inheritance in the Kingdom. Like they, we’ve begun our salvation; what will our hearts reveal?
“that He might humble you, testing you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not.” (Deut 8:2)

(This is one reason I know the “rapture” is not True. Why would God test and perfect the saints throughout the ages by suffering, yet rob some – those from affluent nations - of the means by which God proves the worthiness of those who will “inherit all things”?)

Yes, the Spirit is exhorting us who read the words of Jesus’ prophesy to “understand” these things which must take place before our Lord returns. The persecution (either physical or spiritual, I believe), and the great deception which is upon much of the church today. Not to those who knew Him and walked with Him, but to future generations, Jesus warns, “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.” (Matt 24:4-5).
And indeed many have come preaching that He is the Christ, and usie His Name; yet are deceiving many by actually teaching “another Christ” that is not He. This pseudo-christ is appealing because he makes no demands on those who follow Him; while the True Christ of God makes total demands upon those who would “come after Him.”

It'd be easy to go on and on here! Could turn this discussion on even these few verses into a month long Bible Study.

If the Lord leads, I’d love to share a little later on the Truth you wonderfully brought up concerning the prophecy of Psalm 68 that was fulfilled as we read in Eph 4.

God’s Wisdom and Understanding to you and all who press in to “know Him.”
Peace!

 

[popsthebuilder]

What is the name for the branch of Christianity that does not accept the Bible as written and does not have any other guidance system such as Holy Tradition?

Unitarianism?? onder:

Why would you assume a unitarian wouldn't accept the Bible as written?



Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk

 

[Michael]

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place," (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Matthew 24:15

Paul was prepared and hints that he believes it was going to happen in his time but he also did not live to see it, so far no one has seen Christ riding in on the clouds of glory.

Yes, I totally agree that Paul originally believed the Lord would return in his lifetime. Many of the things he wrote in his earlier letters seem to indicate that. Only as he neared the end of his life, did the Lord reveal to him that He would not. We see this in Acts 20 and 2Tim 4 where he speaks of his soon “departure”, and warns of what would take place once he was gone.

Jesus took captivity captive so now the paradise that was apart of hades is taken up with him to the thrown of God/3rd Heaven or just "Heaven", do you believe that unlike the dead we WILL be able to see worldly events?

So too, I agree with those who believe and teach that our Lord, after He had descended into the place of the dead for those 3 days, and preached “to those in prison”, that He “took captivity captive” and brought “Paradise” with Him into the “third heaven.”

And now, remember that now “we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses”, indeed the faithful, who had proven themselves faithful to God even in the face of tribulation and even death. ‘Heroes of faith’ because they proved faithful by their works in obedience to God; who were “tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth. 39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.” (Heb 11:35b-40)

Oh, yes, these precious few saints throughout the ages are indeed watching us and encouraging us to follow their example of obedience and a walk worthy, not of the world but of God; that we might join them in inheriting the promises of God together as “co-heirs with Christ.”

Also Moses and Elijah was talking to Jesus, did they already have resurrected bodies or were they Spirit?

Moses and Elijah, and even Jesus, when they appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration had not yet resurrected or glorified bodies, for the Man Jesus had not yet passed the final test and been risen by God to “incorruptible Life.” Jesus, when He came forth from the tomb on Resurrection Day, was the “Firstborn from the dead”, the “Firstborn of Creation.” Until "God raised Him up" no one, not even Jesus, had a glorified, resurrected body. While it seems almost impossible for modern church-goers to believe, the Truth is... when Jesus emerged from the the grave, He was something that He had not been before. Having been tested and proven obedient, Jesus is now an "immortal" "flesh and bone" physical Man, and "Life-giving Spirit." He is also "the Firstborn of many brothers" meaning there will be others like Him, not by association, but actually "like Him", because they too traveled the Way of the Cross, were tested and found worthy.

Oh yes, those who truly have been “baptized into His death” by bearing our own cross & laying down our life, and dying to self & partaking of His substance, purifying themselves, will “appear with Him as He is” when He returns; only then a “glorified” body that is both flesh and spirit, as Jesus, now immortal.
“if we have been united with Him in a death like His, we will certainly be united with Him in a resurrection like His.” – Rom 6:5 NRSV

And this is not for all. This is the promise given only to “those who overcome.” This is the First Resurrection. Only these will be “glorified with Him.” The rest of the church-goers and the people of the nations will be raised and judged and receive their lot later.


Very good questions Andrew. God is truly stirring your spirit to search out the deeper things of the Kingdom. And He has promised to give Wisdom to those who ask, and who fear and obey Him. (James 1:5-6, Psalm 111:10)

A passage that I have come to treasure from the Psalmist -

"Show me Your ways, O Lord;
Teach me Your paths.
5 Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
For You are the God of my salvation;
On You I wait all the day."
- Psalm 25:4-5

Amen.
Peace & Blessings, Wisdom and Understanding to us all.