Salvation not based on our merit

[NewCreation435]

I was recently trying to read the book by A.W. Pink called "The Sovereignty of God" and he talked about how salvation is based on God's choice which occurred before time began and is not based on anything we do. Favorite verses seem to be mainly focused on Romans 9. Several questions ran through my mind as I read this. Here are two

If our salvation is not based on any merit of ours then why doesn't God save all instead of just a few since it is not something we earned anyway?

Why is it when people talk about predestination and Calvinism that they always assume they are among the elect instead of those still lost?

And before you get critical of me for asking questions I have been a believer for 40 plus years and have two seminary degrees and study the Bible often and have read it through numerous times. These are honest questions. If you can't be nice in your replies then don't reply. Unfortunately when I have asked questions in the past I have had people question my faith and really act in hateful ways on here

 

[Frankj]

Pre determined salvation would make Christianity in all of its facets meaningless and useless for salvation unless it was such that what is predetermined is that those who choose Christianity are the ones to be saved and those who choose to reject Christianity are not.

This leaves both pre determination and free will intact and makes them compatible.

At least to the extent of my limited ability to understand such things.

 

[NewCreation435]

Pre determined salvation would make Christianity in all of its facets meaningless and useless for salvation unless it was such that what is predetermined is that those who choose Christianity are the ones to be saved and those who choose to reject Christianity are not.

This leaves both pre determination and free will intact and makes them compatible.

At least to the extent of my limited ability to understand such things.

Okay, then how I am to understand it when the Bible uses the word predestination? Because it does such as in places like Ephesians 1:4-5; Romans 8:29

 

[Frankj]

Okay, then how I am to understand it when the Bible uses the word predestination? Because it does such as in places like Ephesians 1:4-5; Romans 8:29

Maybe that there is no need for Christianity and it is nonsense to follow it since you are either chosen for salvation or you're not long before the idea of salvation, or even mankind, came into being.

Muslim, achiest, Satanist, or anything make no difference.

Or maybe, like I suggested, it was determined before it all began that those who choose to accept Christ would be saved, the salvation of Christians being predetermined but not will who accept it or who will not.

As I said, my way of understanding it considering my limited capacity to understand.

 

[Lamb]

I was recently trying to read the book by A.W. Pink called "The Sovereignty of God" and he talked about how salvation is based on God's choice which occurred before time began and is not based on anything we do. Favorite verses seem to be mainly focused on Romans 9. Several questions ran through my mind as I read this. Here are two

If our salvation is not based on any merit of ours then why doesn't God save all instead of just a few since it is not something we earned anyway?

Why is it when people talk about predestination and Calvinism that they always assume they are among the elect instead of those still lost?

And before you get critical of me for asking questions I have been a believer for 40 plus years and have two seminary degrees and study the Bible often and have read it through numerous times. These are honest questions. If you can't be nice in your replies then don't reply. Unfortunately when I have asked questions in the past I have had people question my faith and really act in hateful ways on here

We cannot "choose" holiness, but we can reject it as well as rejecting the Savior and forgiveness of sins.

Scriptures state

You did not choose me, but I chose you John 15:116

and also

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

That means that the "choice" men have is to reject. That's the only real choice in the matter since God is the one who turns us to Him in repentance as a gift, gives us faith so we can believe and have eternal life. So why isn't everyone saved? Because they reject Him.

 

[Webster]

I was recently trying to read the book by A.W. Pink called "The Sovereignty of God" and he talked about how salvation is based on God's choice which occurred before time began and is not based on anything we do. Favorite verses seem to be mainly focused on Romans 9. Several questions ran through my mind as I read this. Here are two

That sounds very much like Reformed theology and its' very much wrong.

Why? Two reasons come to mind: (1) salvation is based on one thing and one thing only - acceptance of Jesus Christ as one's Lord and Savior for only through the shed blood of Calvary are we saved, and (2) it is a decision God leaves to all of us as a free-will decision. God does not want automatons or robots worshiping Him; He wants us to exchange our hearts of stone for hearts of flesh and the decision on whether to do so or not must be our decision, not His.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I was recently trying to read the book by A.W. Pink called "The Sovereignty of God" and he talked about how salvation is based on God's choice which occurred before time began and is not based on anything we do. Favorite verses seem to be mainly focused on Romans 9. Several questions ran through my mind as I read this. Here are two

If our salvation is not based on any merit of ours then why doesn't God save all instead of just a few since it is not something we earned anyway?

Why is it when people talk about predestination and Calvinism that they always assume they are among the elect instead of those still lost?

And before you get critical of me for asking questions I have been a believer for 40 plus years and have two seminary degrees and study the Bible often and have read it through numerous times. These are honest questions. If you can't be nice in your replies then don't reply. Unfortunately when I have asked questions in the past I have had people question my faith and really act in hateful ways on here

An answer to your first question is - Salvation is grounded upon the good work of Jesus Christ and by means of the Holy Spirit's work in the faithful Christ's work changes the inward disposition of the faithful into meritorious works and love towards others. thus, human works and merit do count yet not as the grounds for one's salvation but rather as a fruit and growth from it.

An answer to your second question is - People often presume that they themselves are among the elect because they reason that because they believe in Jesus, they must have been chosen by God to have faith and are thus among the elect. This presumption stems from human vanity and presumption; it is not well founded either in experience or in the gospel.

 

[The Jason]

I was leaning free-will but my spouses recent death got me thinking people aren't perfect, so how can we be sure people die in a good mood, you know or doing the right thing?

 

[Frankj]

I was leaning free-will but my spouses recent death got me thinking people aren't perfect, so how can we be sure people die in a good mood, you know or doing the right thing?

Jesus taught that a tree is known by its fruit.

 

[The Jason]

Jesus taught that a tree is known by its fruit.

Well a lot of people believe that and it makes for an interesting discussion.

But nobody is in a holy mood always and also at passing.

 

[Lamb]

Jesus taught that a tree is known by its fruit.

Jesus also taught that we should repent. We aren't always fruitful and we still sin in these bodies, so maybe someone catches you on a bad day. Do you think they'd think you were a believer because you weren't showing good fruit that day? As the OP said, salvation is not based on our merit, and that's because it's God who saves us 100%. We don't contribute.

 

[Frankj]

Jesus also taught that we should repent. We aren't always fruitful and we still sin in these bodies, so maybe someone catches you on a bad day. Do you think they'd think you were a believer because you weren't showing good fruit that day? As the OP said, salvation is not based on our merit, and that's because it's God who saves us 100%. We don't contribute.

Well, there is an account about Jesus and a run in with a fig tree.

 

[jesus lover]

SAB 1 Corinthians 13

www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

I got this from the above weblink:

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

1. Faith, hope, and charity ... but the greatest of these is charity. (v.13)
   Charity (good works) is more important than faith.

 

[Lamb]

Well, there is an account about Jesus and a run in with a fig tree.

SAB 1 Corinthians 13

www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

I got this from the above weblink:

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

1. Faith, hope, and charity ... but the greatest of these is charity. (v.13)
   Charity (good works) is more important than faith.

Salvation is "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

 

[BruceLeiter]

That sounds very much like Reformed theology and its' very much wrong.

Why? Two reasons come to mind: (1) salvation is based on one thing and one thing only - acceptance of Jesus Christ as one's Lord and Savior for only through the shed blood of Calvary are we saved, and (2) it is a decision God leaves to all of us as a free-will decision. God does not want automatons or robots worshiping Him; He wants us to exchange our hearts of stone for hearts of flesh and the decision on whether to do so or not must be our decision, not His.

The passage to which you refer in your answer is the following, @Webster:

Eze 36:24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land.
Eze 36:25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

Where does it say that we decide to be saved? Nowhere.

Another one is the following, which says that we are dead to God before he raises us to life with his gift of faith by his grace. The result is our grateful good works:

Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Our choices to believe in the true God result from God's actions in our lives to rescue us.

 

[NewCreation435]

We cannot "choose" holiness, but we can reject it as well as rejecting the Savior and forgiveness of sins.

Scriptures state

You did not choose me, but I chose you John 15:116

and also

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

That means that the "choice" men have is to reject. That's the only real choice in the matter since God is the one who turns us to Him in repentance as a gift, gives us faith so we can believe and have eternal life. So why isn't everyone saved? Because they reject Him.

Jesus also taught that we should repent. We aren't always fruitful and we still sin in these bodies, so maybe someone catches you on a bad day. Do you think they'd think you were a believer because you weren't showing good fruit that day? As the OP said, salvation is not based on our merit, and that's because it's God who saves us 100%. We don't contribute.

the fact that he warns us of what would happen if we don't repent and tells us to repent suggests free will more

 

[Lamb]

the fact that he warns us of what would happen if we don't repent and tells us to repent suggests free will more

Repentance is a gift from God, just like faith is. Acts 5:3, Acts 11:18, 2 Timothy 2:25

 

[Webster]

Our choices to believe in the true God result from God's actions in our lives to rescue us.

And yet the choice on whether to accept Christ's gift of salvation and to follow Him is not God's decision; He can "push" us in that direction via. that small soft voice of the Holy Spirit but ultimately we have to make that decision Bruce. Each of us here had to make that decision; otherwise none of us would be here.

 

[Lamb]

And yet the choice on whether to accept Christ's gift of salvation and to follow Him is not God's decision; He can "push" us in that direction via. that small soft voice of the Holy Spirit but ultimately we have to make that decision Bruce. Each of us here had to make that decision; otherwise none of us would be here.

The decision for what? To have your sins forgiven? That was done by Christ. Salvation is by grace through faith and it's not just to follow God, but to believe in the Savior who died for your sins.

 

[BruceLeiter]

And yet the choice on whether to accept Christ's gift of salvation and to follow Him is not God's decision; He can "push" us in that direction via. that small soft voice of the Holy Spirit but ultimately we have to make that decision Bruce. Each of us here had to make that decision; otherwise none of us would be here.

And yet the choice on whether to accept Christ's gift of salvation and to follow Him is not God's decision; He can "push" us in that direction via. that small soft voice of the Holy Spirit but ultimately we have to make that decision Bruce. Each of us here had to make that decision; otherwise none of us would be here.

What Bible verses say what you just said? I say what John Calvin said, "Go as far as the Bible and then stop." It's my opinion that you might have gone over that line, @Webster.