Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived

[Truth7t7]

1 Thessalonians 5:9
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,.../KJV

Revelation 3:10
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth..../KJV

I like how the NLT words it too, same verse.
10 “Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world..../NLT

The Great Tribulation is God's wrath poured out upon the earth, seven bowls or 7 vials depending on the version. That is the day of the Lord, right? Ok...

Now tell me who is it in 1 Thess 5:9 that is not appointed to wrath? Who are the ones that in Rev 3:10 have obeyed the Lord and so are protected from the great time of testing of those upon the whole world? Because you have everyone going through it.

The Two Witnesses Will Dominate The Entire Tribulation, Something Many Disregard As Non-Existent

Try Reading Exodus And The Plagues Upon Pharaoh And Egypt, It's Going To Be A Complete Replay

God's Divine Protection, "Open Your Ears"

(Revelation) 13:9-10KJV
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

God's Divine Protection During The Final Hour Of Earth's Temptation, Just Like The Passover In Egypt, "Open Your Ears"

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

The Great Trib Will Be Upon The Antichrist And Wicked, The Church Is Protected, Dont Be Deceived

There's Going To Be An End Times Persecution, The Beast And His Kingdom Are The Target Of God's Empowered (Two Witnesses)

The Great Tribulation Will Come Upon The Wicked World, While The (Sealed Church) Is Protected

The (Sealed Church) will be present on earth and protected, when wicked men are tormented 5 months, desiring to die as death flees

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

It Was Commanded, Only Those Without God's Seal Will Be Tormented, The Sealed Church Is Protected

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Plagues upon The Beast and his Kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Revelation 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

 

[Edward429451]

As previously shown the event of the second coming of Jesus in the heavens happens quickly, below your shown the resurrection and catching up is in the blink of an eye, yes the Lord removes the church from this earth, and his fire judgement in the cup of wrath is poured upon the unsaved world as the earth is dissolved by the Lord's fire

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17KJV & 1 Corinthians 15:51-52KJV is the same event in parallel teachings, same Trump of God, same resurrection of the dead in Christ, this takes place at the future second coming on the last day

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

So it's after Jesus goes to Mt of Olives and puts down all evil, that the rapture happens?

So after Jesus is done fighting, He ascends to the air to call His people and gather them to Himself? (Rapture).

 

[Edward429451]

Try Reading Exodus And The Plagues Upon Pharaoh And Egypt, It's Going To Be A Complete Replay

I agree with this. It's going to be exodus on a huge scale.

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

The Great Trib Will Be Upon The Antichrist And Wicked, The Church Is Protected, Dont Be Deceived

(That's a great scripture!). Where do you suppose those chambers are? Is He talking about our homes on earth (lol)? Or is He talking about where it is when He said...I go and prepare a place for you? (I would think this is a mansion in the city of New Jerusalem). Why wouldn't it be there?!

Now we can argue pretrib posttrib all night and I do have all the scriptures but instead of that lets look at this a little differently. The problem that I see that you are having is that, you are confusing two events as one event. Many people do that, I used to myself!

So for one thing, if you have the rapture to be the last thing, then we know exactly when the rapture will happen...and scripture says no one knows, not even the Angels or Jesus when the rapture will happen. (Matthew 24:36). You have destroyed the doctrine of imminence with your view. Jesus said to be ready and waiting for He will come in an hour we think not.

Matthew 24:
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh..../KJV

So it can't be at the very last day. Because we know from Daniel 9 that when a peace treaty is signed for 7 years with Israel, the tribulation has begun and 1260 days later the antichrist sets up the abomination of desolation in the temple and then the Great Trib starts., then 1260 days after that Jesus returns.

So tell me how it could possibly be at the last day? These are two events. Jesus made a promise to come for the Bride and gather her to Him self. He also made a promise to the world that great tribulation will befall them for their unbelief. Two events. Not one event.

 

[Edward429451]

Rapture and 2nd Coming = Two Events...

In the Rapture //////// 2nd Coming
Translation of Believers. //////// No Translation involved.
Saints go to Hevaen. //////// Saints return to earth w/Jesus.
Earth not Judged. //////// Earth is Judged.
Imminent. //////// Not Imminent.
Affects Believers Only. //////// Affects all men on earth.
Before the Day of Wrath. //////// Concludes the Day of Wrath.
No reference to Satan. //////// Satan is Bound.
He Comes in the Air. //////// He comes to the earth.
He comes For His Bride. //////// He Comes With His Bride.
Only the Saints See Him. //////// Every eye shall see Him.
The Tribulation Begins. ///////// The Millenium Begins.

 

[Truth7t7]

So it's after Jesus goes to Mt of Olives and puts down all evil, that the rapture happens?

So after Jesus is done fighting, He ascends to the air to call His people and gather them to Himself? (Rapture).

Your trying to equate a "Spiritual Event" to earthly time, when the 7th Trump sounds time ceases to exist

Revelation 10:6-7KJV
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[Edward429451]

It messed it all up! I had three nice columns made and everything seperated real nice.

Rapture stuff on left...slash marks in middle...2nd Coming on the right...

Sorry!

 

[Edward429451]

Your trying to equate a "Spiritual Event" to earthly time, when the 7th Trump sounds time ceases to exist

Revelation 10:6-7KJV
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Please dont tell me what I am trying to do. I asked you questions! Want to answer those?! Let's start there? Otherwise you're talking to yourself.

Are you trying to dodge my questions?

 

[Edward429451]

Your trying to equate a "Spiritual Event" to earthly time, when the 7th Trump sounds time ceases to exist

That's BS, ok? There has to be time of some sort in heaven or else it would not speak of yesterdays, todays, and tomorrows...!

Your dodging me! Lol.

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree with this. It's going to be exodus on a huge scale.

Ok

(That's a great scripture!). Where do you suppose those chambers are? Is He talking about our homes on earth (lol)? Or is He talking about where it is when He said...I go and prepare a place for you? (I would think this is a mansion in the city of New Jerusalem). Why wouldn't it be there?!

Already answered, Isaiah was talking about physical house and doors upon this earth in Isaiah 26:20

Now we can argue pretrib posttrib all night and I do have all the scriptures but instead of that lets look at this a little differently. The problem that I see that you are having is that, you are confusing two events as one event. Many people do that, I used to myself!

So for one thing, if you have the rapture to be the last thing, then we know exactly when the rapture will happen...and scripture says no one knows, not even the Angels or Jesus when the rapture will happen. (Matthew 24:36). You have destroyed the doctrine of imminence with your view. Jesus said to be ready and waiting for He will come in an hour we think not.

Matthew 24:
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh..../KJV

There will be signs of his return, no man knows the day/hour but they will know the signs of the season

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So it can't be at the very last day. Because we know from Daniel 9 that when a peace treaty is signed for 7 years with Israel, the tribulation has begun and 1260 days later the antichrist sets up the abomination of desolation in the temple and then the Great Trib starts., then 1260 days after that Jesus returns.

So tell me how it could possibly be at the last day? These are two events. Jesus made a promise to come for the Bride and gather her to Him self. He also made a promise to the world that great tribulation will befall them for their unbelief. Two events. Not one event.

I disagree, as you've been shown "several times" as seen below, I will post it again and again, Jesus Returns (Then Cometh The End) your in denial of the simple scripture before your eyes as if it doesn't exist

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

Rapture and 2nd Coming = Two Events...

In the Rapture //////// 2nd Coming
Translation of Believers. //////// No Translation involved.
Saints go to Hevaen. //////// Saints return to earth w/Jesus.
Earth not Judged. //////// Earth is Judged.
Imminent. //////// Not Imminent.
Affects Believers Only. //////// Affects all men on earth.
Before the Day of Wrath. //////// Concludes the Day of Wrath.
No reference to Satan. //////// Satan is Bound.
He Comes in the Air. //////// He comes to the earth.
He comes For His Bride. //////// He Comes With His Bride.
Only the Saints See Him. //////// Every eye shall see Him.
The Tribulation Begins. ///////// The Millenium Begins.

The (rapture/catching up) and second coming is one event that takes place on the last day at the Lord's second coming as shown above

 

[Truth7t7]

Please dont tell me what I am trying to do. I asked you questions! Want to answer those?! Let's start there? Otherwise you're talking to yourself.

Are you trying to dodge my questions?

Your question was answered in detail

 

[Truth7t7]

That's BS, ok? There has to be time of some sort in heaven or else it would not speak of yesterdays, todays, and tomorrows...!

Your dodging me! Lol.

Jesus returns at the 7th and last Trump, prior to that the signs of the sun-moon darkened, stars falling from heaven, heavens shake, as seen in Matthew 24:29-30

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

As you have been shown several times the resurrection and catching up takes place in the blink/twinkling of an eye, mortal becomes immortal eternity begins

1 Corinthians 15:51-52KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[Edward429451]

Already answered, Isaiah was talking about physical house and doors upon this earth in Isaiah 26:20

So after WW III and all the nuclear bombs, and the worldwide earthquake that's coming...all the Christians houses will still be standing?

No. my friend. That is incorrect. When Jesus comes at His 2nd coming and puts evil down then sets up His Millennial Kingdom for 1000 years and will restore all things. Right? Right.

Now so the earth is going to be remodeled so to speak! He is going to make it like it was before the fall of man.

And we all know that step 1 of a remodel job is demolition. That's what WW III & the worldwide earthquake do, so there isn't going to be houses in all nations still standing. Scripture says says everything will be leveled. Right? I dont have that reference right now, but it's in there!

Please dont answer me in a way that is unrelated to what I am saying.

 

[Edward429451]

There will be signs of his return, no man knows the day/hour but they will know the signs of the season

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

We do know the day of Jesus return. But not of the rapture.

And keep reading from that point...!!...because in v32 he changes the subject to the rapture.

Don't you understand how much God loves His people?

I love you honey and will make you my Bride...I'll pick you up after the war??!!! No way Jesus would do that to His Bride.
Look Brother, 1 Thessalonians 1:10. 1 Thessalonians 5:3, 1 Thessalonians 5:9.....The Bride does not go through the Tribulation, she is rescued off of the planet for the 7 years that the trib is happening. I think one scripture says she will not see God's wrath...and that's because she will be in her chambers with the door closed, exploring her new mansion!

 

[Truth7t7]

We do know the day of Jesus return. But not of the rapture.

And keep reading from that point...!!...because in v32 he changes the subject to the rapture.

Don't you understand how much God loves His people?

I love you honey and will make you my Bride...I'll pick you up after the war??!!! No way Jesus would do that to His Bride.
Look Brother, 1 Thessalonians 1:10. 1 Thessalonians 5:3, 1 Thessalonians 5:9.....The Bride does not go through the Tribulation, she is rescued off of the planet for the 7 years that the trib is happening. I think one scripture says she will not see God's wrath...and that's because she will be in her chambers with the door closed, exploring her new mansion!

I Disagree with your opinions, you've clearly been shown that the Lord returns and the resurrection of all on the last day takes place (Then Cometh The End), it has been presented to you several times, in your complete denial of this biblical truth seen below before your eyes

Jesus Is The Lord

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Lamb]

The Nicene creed is the site's statement of faith and in that creed we recite:
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father; And He will come again with glory to judge the living and dead.

The bold is what I highlighted to show that when Jesus comes, there is judgment day. There is no mention of another thousand years, which, if it were so important a doctrine would be mentioned in the creed.

 

[Edward429451]

I disagree, as you've been shown "several times" as seen below, I will post it again and again, Jesus Returns (Then Cometh The End) your in denial of the simple scripture before your eyes as if it doesn't exist

You are correct about that stuff. That's how the 2nd Coming goes down. But the Bride has been raptured before the start of the tribulation. You are still confusing two different events and making them as one event. That is wrong!

I used to be a post trib guy and held much the same understanding that you do.

I Disagree with your opinions, you've clearly been shown that the Lord returns and the resurrection of all on the last day takes place (Then Cometh The End), it has been presented to you several times, in your complete denial of this biblical truth seen below before your eyes

Jesus Is The Lord

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I agree with all this that happens on the 2nd coming. Just not the Rapture. You dont seem to want to address that by other than denials of it.

Ok let's do a hypothetical what if? Ok? Just for fun, it means nothing but to illustrate a point.

"IF" the Lord came as a thief in the night to rapture His Bride off the earth, and He did sneak up on you so that you were not ready...(IF)...you missed the time of His coming...how in the world could He sneak up on you if you are not looking for Him until the very last of the very last day like you say. He would have to come sooner than that to be able to sneak up on you, and yet, the Lord says, I will come in an hour that you do not suspect that He will come in...Right?

That said, wouldn't He have to come pretrib to sneak up on you? You hold yourself to be right and have confidence. So is it safe to say that you are not looking for Him to come yet?

 

[Truth7t7]

You are correct about that stuff. That's how the 2nd Coming goes down. But the Bride has been raptured before the start of the tribulation. You are still confusing two different events and making them as one event. That is wrong!

I used to be a post trib guy and held much the same understanding that you do.


I agree with all this that happens on the 2nd coming. Just not the Rapture. You dont seem to want to address that by other than denials of it.

Ok let's do a hypothetical what if? Ok? Just for fun, it means nothing but to illustrate a point.

"IF" the Lord came as a thief in the night to rapture His Bride off the earth, and He did sneak up on you so that you were not ready...(IF)...you missed the time of His coming...how in the world could He sneak up on you if you are not looking for Him until the very last of the very last day like you say. He would have to come sooner than that to be able to sneak up on you, and yet, the Lord says, I will come in an hour that you do not suspect that He will come in...Right?

That said, wouldn't He have to come pretrib to sneak up on you? You hold yourself to be right and have confidence. So is it safe to say that you are not looking for Him to come yet?

Ed a pre-trib rapture isn't found in scripture, the historical standard verses used by dispensationalism that you follow are 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 & 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, this has been their claim for the past 180+ years, from John N. Darby 1830's to C.I. Scofield's reference Bible of 1909, to the present (Dallas Theological Seminary) that's dispensationalism's world headquarters

Ed you will "Closely Note" that both historical claims of a (Pre-Trib Rapture) have the "Resurrection" of the dead in Christ, the scripture presented below is nothing more than (The Last Day Resurrection) that takes place at the second coming, its not a (Pre-Trib Rapture) as dispensationalism "Falsely Claims"

I will post this biblical truth again and again it's not going to change, dispensationalism and (Dallas Theological Seminary) is wrong and falsely teaching as documented

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Nicene creed is the site's statement of faith and in that creed we recite:
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father; And He will come again with glory to judge the living and dead.

The bold is what I highlighted to show that when Jesus comes, there is judgment day. There is no mention of another thousand years, which, if it were so important a doctrine would be mentioned in the creed.

I Agree, the early church fathers didn't teach of a pre-trib rapture, it's the invention of John N. Darby 1830's England (Plymouth Brethren) and was promoted by C.I. Scofields 1909 reference Bible with Darby's false teachings in the margins

The Scofield Bible sold millions of copies throughout the world and was the greatest influence in planting the false teachings of a pre-trib rapture and 1,000 year millennial kingdom on this earth

(Dallas Theological Seminary) is the world headquarters for the false teachings found in dispensationalism, and C.I. Scofield's Dallas Church was the instrument used to start this seminary roughly a century ago

 

[Edward429451]

Ed a pre-trib rapture isn't found in scripture,

Neither is Trinity. Neither is Grandfather. Does that mean there is no such thing?

the historical standard verses used by dispensationalism that you follow are 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 & 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, this has been their claim for the past 180+ years, from John N. Darby 1830's to C.I. Scofield's reference Bible of 1909, to the present (Dallas Theological Seminary) that's dispensationalism's world headquarters

Ed you will "Closely Note" that both historical claims of a (Pre-Trib Rapture) have the "Resurrection" of the dead in Christ, the scripture presented below is nothing more than (The Last Day Resurrection) that takes place at the second coming, its not a (Pre-Trib Rapture) as dispensationalism "Falsely Claims"

I will post this biblical truth again and again it's not going to change, dispensationalism and (Dallas Theological Seminary) is wrong and falsely teaching as documented

I don't even know what means. What is dispensationalism? I'm kind of what you call Non-Denominational so dont go calling me names and from what I can tell, When I ask you a question you start calling me names and comparing me to people that, I dont even know.

So you dont seem to want to talk, just preach. I understand being adamant and confident in what you know and say. But I asked myself, have I ever been wrong? And of course I have. But one can not mature and learn unless one learns to learn wherein was my mistake?

I must remain teachable. That means I must be able to set aside what I know and my presuppositions in the classroom so to speak, and look from a new perspective of what the person is saying and see if he is missing anything in his logic or does what he saying make sense? And it's good to be able to do that, it's sorta like a field trip from class, thatwas cool...makes sense too. Then later you go back home to your own viewpoint and go Uh-Oh and see problems if the other view from class makes more sense than I did before! And I weighed them out, and I am not post trib anymore. I am pretrib.

I know you dont get it, Pretrib. What you don't know, you don't know. But what you wont learn you can't know. And what we dont know we eventually pay for in the end. So you don't seem to be able to set aside previously held beliefs & pre suppositions long enough to even possibly learn any of it. (Which you will prolly rejoice too Lol!) If you wont answer any questions for me I find myself finding you hard to talk to and neither one is getting edified. I dont want to talk about other sects that you dont like, or compared to them. I aint no dispenwhat ever you you said ist. All U did was ask about what this scripture which says be ready now? You ignored me repeatedly. So you have no answer and I'm stuck, I geuss we stop here unless you can address some scriptures because I had points to make so now I cant continue talking because you always go off on a tangent.