Resurrection

[visionary]

The word resurrection means rising from the dead—coming back to life.

Yeshua's resurrection was essential for anyone to have hope of eternal life. Without it, there was no sign that sacrificing His life was the atonement for the sins of man.

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

This will happen at the start of the millenium... and He reigns until the last enemy is destroyed... death.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Revelation 20 gives the time order of major events after Yeshua’s return to the earth which I covered in the millenium thread. After Satan is bound and prevented from deceiving people for a thousand years, John says, “Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Yeshua and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Yeshua, our Jewish Messiah, for a thousand years”

This resurrection of the saints is for eternity life Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

With something called “first resurrection". that clearly implies at least another resurrection. And John explains the second resurrection which no one should or would want to be a part of, it is after the millennium rest, 1,000 years later.

Rev 20:5: But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.

In the second resurrection, the dead are described as standing before a “great white throne”

Rev 20: 11 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. 12 And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

 

[Pedrito]

Once again I would commend visionary for the seriousness she displays in her quest for the understanding of Scriptural truth.

I believe she deserves commendation from each of us in that regard. That is so even if we do not all necessarily see eye to eye on every conclusion she may draw.


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With respect to visionary's presentation, I have a couple of thoughts. Hopefully they will prove helpful to some.

1 Corinthians 15:12:

Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

rose – egeiro – was awakened, was aroused.
resurrection – anastasis – standing up again, resurrection from death.

1 Corinthians 15:13:

But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

resurrection – anastasis – standing up again, resurrection from death.
is risen – egeiro – has been awakened, has been aroused.

1 Corinthians 15:14:

And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

be risen – egeiro – has been awakened, has been aroused.

1 Corinthians 15:15:

Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

raised up – egeiro – awakened, aroused.
raised up – egeiro – awakened, aroused.
rise – egeiro – are awakened, are aroused.

1 Corinthians 15:16:

For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

rise – egeiro – are awakened, are aroused.
is raised – egeiro – has been awakened, has been aroused.

1 Corinthians 15:17:

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

be raised – egeiro – has been awakened, has been aroused.

1 Corinthians 15:22:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

shall be made alive – zoopoieo – will be revitalised, will be caused to live.

Revelation 20:6

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

resurrection – anastasis – standing up again, resurrection from death.

Revelation 20:5

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

lived again – anazao – recovered life, were restored to a better life or a better moral state.


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The word anazao (Strong's G326) in Revelation 20:5 is different in nature from the other words used in these passages.

It is translated "is alive again" in Luke 15:24 and Luke 15:32, and "revived" in Romans 7:9 and Romans 14:9.


Romans 14:9 is interesting.

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

The word translated "rose" in Romans 14:9 is anistemi, meaning to stand up. It contrasts well with the word anazao in that same verse, translated "revived" in the KJV. Two separate actions are documented.

(Some translations document only one action. If textual differences exist, as opposed to translators combining the actions because they did not understand why there could be two, it would have been easier for copyists to combine a "confusing" dual action into one, rather than split a simple singular action into a "confusing" double.)

Could the dual action in Romans 14:9 have a bearing on understanding the intended meaning of Revelation 20:5? For those people, could the timing of their resurrection and that of their attaining what might be termed a fullness of life, be different? Is there other Scripture(s) anywhere (OT and/or NT) that might lend support to that notion?

And wouldn't it be interesting if that other Scripture or those other Scriptures also threw some extra light on Revelation 20:12?

 

[visionary]

Could the dual action in Romans 14:9 have a bearing on understanding the intended meaning of Revelation 20:5? For those people, could the timing of their resurrection and that of their attaining what might be termed a fullness of life, be different? Is there other Scripture(s) anywhere (OT and/or NT) that might lend support to that notion?

I think so.

 

[Alithis]

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
lived again – anazao – recovered life, were restored to a better life or a better moral state.

Just wondering if it makes that much difference ?
For he uses the word NOT.

so it still says
Not live again – NOT anazao – recovered NOT life, were NOT restored to a better life or a better moral state.

 

[Alithis]

@ Visionary .i see nothing in your op that differs from my present understanding of things

 

[visionary]

Just wondering if it makes that much difference ?
For he uses the word NOT.

so it still says
Not live again – NOT anazao – recovered NOT life, were NOT restored to a better life or a better moral state.

Interesting... and I can see validity to the fact that those resurrected on the second go around, do not get immortality, not restoration of health, or anything else, but come alive like zombies with flesh hanging off their bones, and minimum restoration [just enough to be alive for the final judgment]

 

[visionary]

He means that their punishment is eternal, that is, irrevocable.

At the end of the thousand years of the millennium, Yeshua and His people, along with the holy City, the New Jerusalem, descend to the earth. Revelation 21:2.

All the wicked who have ever lived are now resurrected in “the resurrection of damnation,” and “Satan” is “loosed out of his prison.” After his long incarceration, he now has all his subjects, the vast multitude of the lost, to tempt, deceive and torment. He then goes out “to deceive the nations” and “to gather them together to battle.” He persuades them that he has resurrected them from the grave by his own power. He convinces them that together they can conquer the New Jerusalem and overthrow God. Now plans are made, instruments of war constructed, and the armies of Satan Surround “The camp of the saints” and “the beloved city.”

Before judgment is executed against the wicked, they are shown the charges for which they are condemned; they agree with the saints and the angels that God’s judgment is just. Rev 21:11-13

Then the sentence is executed. “Fire” comes “down from God out of heaven” to devour the wicked, turning the earth’s surface into a vast “lake of fire.” It burns up “the devil,” “the beast,” “the false prophet” and “whosoever was not found written in the book of life,” vs. 15.

Sin and the effects of sin are destroyed, including “death” and “hell” (the grave), vs. 14. In the cleansing flames the wicked are annihilated; this is the second death. “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power,” vs. 6. The fire that consumed the wicked purifies the earth. Every trace of the curse of sin is swept away. The universe is once again free from sin and rebellion.

God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezekiel 18:32; 33:11); to Him the destruction of the wicked is a strange act. Isaiah 28:21. God loves and sends blessings upon all, even on those who are evil. John 3:16; Matthew 5:45; Luke 6:35. The wicked have made themselves unfit for Heaven. The purity, peace and harmony of paradise would be a great torture to them. Their destruction is the most merciful thing that God can do for them.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The Great White Throne Judgment comes after the wicked surround the City of God, but before they are destroyed, God opens the books of Heaven and shows each one of the lost the record of his life of rebellion against God. They also see the love of God in the effort He has expended to affect their salvation, and in the blood of the Son of God poured out on their behalf.

The record books of heaven portray its unmistakeable detail their selfishness, cruelty, and every particular of their rejection of God’s authority. They will see clearly why their names are not in the Book of Life. Revelation 13:8; Exodus 32:32, 33; Revelation 3:5.

All the wicked will be fully convinced of God’s justice in the sentence of eternal death pronounced against them. All of God’s judgments are seen to be fair and honest. The entire host of the lost will bow down and confess that God is just. Romans 14:11. Even Satan will knee’ before God and admit that he has been wrong in his rebellion Then the wicked receive their punishment in the lake of fire with Satan and his angels.

 

[visionary]

Let's look at verses 9 and 10 together.
Here is what happens to the human race....

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Being spiritual beings it takes a little longer. I can understand since Satan can walk the hot coals fire with no trouble. The beast and false prophet are a little different, because one is a political entity, and the other is false concepts of God and His kingdom. So it could be that Satan and all his evil ideas, spirit friends, demons, etc are taking a little longer to be destroyed.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The fire of Sodom went out. It's not burning today. Jude 7 mentions fire of Sodom as "eternal," but Luke 17:29 says that the people were destroyed and Peter says that the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah are ashes 2 Peter 2:6. Paul explains that the destruction is "everlasting" 2 Th 9 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

 

[Pedrito]

In Post #4 on Page 1, Alithis posted:

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
lived again – anazao – recovered life, were restored to a better life or a better moral state.

Just wondering if it makes that much difference ?
For he uses the word NOT.

so it still says
Not live again – NOT anazao – recovered NOT life, were NOT restored to a better life or a better moral state.

I think that Readers will find, if they look carefully, that the text says:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

What a difference an almost insignificant little word can make.


As previously pointed out in Post #2 on Page 1:

Romans 14:9 is interesting.

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

The word translated "rose" in Romans 14:9 is anistemi, meaning to stand up. It contrasts well with the word anazao in that same verse, translated "revived" in the KJV. Two separate actions are documented.

(Some translations document only one action. If textual differences exist, as opposed to translators combining the actions because they did not understand why there could be two, it would have been easier for copyists to combine a "confusing" dual action into one, rather than split a simple singular action into a "confusing" double.)

Could the dual action in Romans 14:9 have a bearing on understanding the intended meaning of Revelation 20:5? For those people, could the timing of their resurrection and that of their attaining what might be termed a fullness of life, be different? Is there other Scripture(s) anywhere (OT and/or NT) that might lend support to that notion?

And wouldn't it be interesting if that other Scripture or those other Scriptures also threw some extra light on Revelation 20:12?

I would like to answer “Yes there is” and “Yes it would be” and “Indeed it is, because it does”.

 

[Pedrito]

I have a question for visionary.

Is there anywhere in God's Inspired Revelation to Israel, where a prophet under God's control prophesied of a time when a person's standing with God would depend solely on that person's personal actions (works)?

Does that passage speak of a person starting out well but meeting a sticky end because that person ultimately went downhill through disobedience? Does the passage also speak of, and contrast, the bright end of someone who starts out badly but pulls his or her socks up and becomes obedient?

(If anyone else finds the question interesting, or deems God's Holy Revelation (all of it – the whole counsel of God) to be of importance and relevance, that person is invited to join in with visionary.)

If such a prophetic passage does indeed exist, must it not be acknowledged that at no stage in the history of Earth so far since that prophecy was issued, has mankind lived under the conditions prophesied?

(The Law condemned everyone. The pre-Law period was before the prophetic utterance was issued. The current dispensation (I have seen that term used) involves faith.)

And if the prophet makes reference to the Law of Moses in fine detail, does that not actually reinforce the criticality of the personal obedience that he is presenting? Was not that Law the only understood mechanism available to a prophet in Israel and Judah at that time, to unequivocally express and emphasise the concept being presented – the concept of a person's obedience being the one touchstone for their future?

Now some Scripture for review:

Romans 3:23

for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin [is] death, but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hebrews 2:9

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1 Corinthians 15:21

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:22

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.

John 5:24-29

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(I suggest that the word translated "damnation" here (Greek krisis) be checked in Strong's for instance. The English word "crisis" is derived from this word.)

Revelation 20:12

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

According to their works?

But that seems to tie in with the prophecy (if it exists), does it not?

And might that tie-in then throw light on the intent of the special Greek word used in Revelation 20:5 and Romans 14:9? (See Post #2.)

I submit that anyone who does the investigation without prejudice, will find it to be so.

Therefore, I don't think I can be blamed for being once again amazed at God and His wonderful thoughts that are far above ours. For me it is definitely amazing, the repeated precision with which God planned that His Holy Revelation to Israel would highlight and clarify certain doctrinal issues that would arise in post-apostolic times.


The whole counsel of God. Declaring the end from the beginning.


All we need now is for visionary or someone else to identify that highly enlightening prophecy and bring it to our attention.

Does anyone know where it is?

 

[visionary]

Many of the biblical people had their ups and downs in their relationship to the Lord, their obedience to His Word, and it reflected in the impact on those around them for years to come.

Name one biblical person who didn't have their ups and downs. It is like this. How many times in your own relationship with God have you found yourself at logger heads with Him? Either your disobedience caused you to suffer or those around you suffered because of it. That doesn't even begin to say anything about the deteriorating relationship with God Himself.

Did God change in all this? NO... that is the one constant... DID his LAWS change? NO.. that is another constant... DID His love for you change? NO... that is constant... so what changed... It is sin that separates us, and we are the ones who withdraw... just like ADAM and EVE in the garden covered themselves, hid themselves, and refused to respond to His calling out to us in the cool of the evening.