Relative To Luke 16:19-31

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• Luke 16:24-25 . . He cried out and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and
send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue;
for I am in agony in this flame.

It's often assumed that the rich man was aflame like a burning log; but the passage
above suggests he was in fire but wasn't necessarily on fire like someone coated
with pitch. In other words; his side of the chasm was an oven, i.e. he was
overheated and dehydrated but not kindled like a human torch.

Also; there's no mention of the rich man wailing and/or gnashing his teeth; which
suggests to me the although he's in a great deal of discomfort; it's all what might
be called threshold, i.e. within the limits of his tolerance for pain and not quite
enough to make him writhe, groan, and/or howl like a wounded dog.

But how did the rich man expect Lazarus to come near him with some water? Did
he actually take it for granted that the beggar would agree to risking his own
personal safety?

To think there are actually people in this world who truly believe that the
underprivileged exist solely for their benefit; sort of like commodities.

FAQ: Why wouldn't the rich man request passage for himself to cross over?

A: It's reasonable to expect that folks' first reaction upon arrival on the wrong side
of the netherworld is primal fear, i.e. panic; which would quite naturally trigger a
very strong impulse to try and find some way out of the flames the same as
anybody would do caught in, say, a hotel fire. Consequently they find out right
quick either by personal experience or by talking with long-time prisoners, that the
chasm is impassible; at least from their side.

Now; exactly what the man had seen, or heard tell by others, that led him to hope
against hope that folks from Abraham's side were able to cross, I don't know;
maybe his request was just an act of desperation, or maybe he thought he was
special and deserved exceptions? But I'm beginning to suspect there is lot more to
this story than only the portions that Jesus exposed-- a lot more.
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FAQ: The human body is organic. So then, how can it survive the heat as perpetual
nourishment for those worms depicted in Isa 66:22-24?

A: The laws of nature are not absolute. They were created in the first chapter of
Genesis to control the behavior of created matter, and as such are easily
manipulated by the one who designed them.

For example: fire totally incinerated the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah but left
unscathed a desert shrub that Moses encountered in the Sinai outback while
tending his father-in-law's sheep. (Ex 3:1-3)

Compare Dan 3:8-27 where a blistering hot fire didn't even so much as singe the
clothing of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego while slaying the guards that threw
them in the furnace.

FAQ: Won't the worms eventually exhaust their food supply?

A: There are incidents in the Bible where small amounts of food stuffs were
miraculously multiplied. One example is 1Kgs 17:8-16 where a tiny bit of flour and
oil nourished Elijah and a widow woman, and her son, for a good many days during
a time of prolonged drought.

Another incident is at 2Kgs 4:1-7 where a certain widow's husband died and left her
deeply in debt. God multiplied her last pot of oil sufficiently to sell enough to pay off
her debts, thereby saving her two sons from slavery.

No; I'm pretty sure those worms won't need to worry about running out of human
remains with which to sustain themselves.

FAQ: That rich man in Luke 16:19-31 . . are worms gnawing on him?

A: For now his body is buried. It won't be till it's resurrected for him to face the
great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 when he will be subjected to the
worms.

The hell where he's being held for now is a sort of minimum security prison. The
ultimate hell is a maximum security prison; and its accommodations are very
unsavory; to say the least.

FAQ: Do you honestly approve these two hells about which you speak?

A: I honestly do not approve. I would much prefer that folks be annihilated than
kept in a perpetual state of conscious suffering. For the life of me; I just don't know
how God justifies doing that to people. I expect that degree of cruelty from social
monsters like Kim Jong-Un and Xi Jinping, but not from God.
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[Fritz Kobus]

The worm may be figurative for an intense gnawing pain and agony that those in Hell will endure.

 

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The rich man in Luke 16:19-31 is currently being held in a secure location awaiting
trial at the event depicted by Rev 20:11-15 where he'll be reunited with his body
along with everyone else on the wrong side of Hades-- he may have a long wait for
his trial.

According to the Census Bureau, something like 7,000 people of all ages, races,
and genders die every day in the USA.

At one time it was estimated that roughly 28% of those deaths are under the age of
19 so that we can count 5,040 of those daily deaths as responsible adults.

Jesus said that many are called and few chosen. If we reckon the many to be
somewhere around 51% then we can estimate that 2,570 of of those 5,040 join the
rich man every day of the week-- 24/7/365 --adding up to 938,050 condemned
souls in one year; and that's just from the USA; not even reckoning with rest of the
globe's population.

If we were to arbitrarily allot each trial ½ hour at Rev 20:11-15, it would take
approximately 469,025 hours to try all 938,050 of the USA souls; or 19,543
twenty-four hour days totaling 53½ years. I'm pretty sure the rich man will be
standing in line for quite a bit longer than that when we take into consideration the
entire population of Hades going all the way back to the days of Cain and Abel

I once commented to a Christian friend that it seems almost impossible that God
will ever get around to judging every man and woman who has ever lived. My
friend replied: Well; he has plenty of time.
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[Fritz Kobus]

God can hear the prayers of all his saints simultaneously and individually without distraction, so I would say it will be no problem for him to effect a quick judgement. Also note that the judgement probably is outside of time. God is not like us and his capabilities far exceed our wildest immaginations.

 

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God can hear the prayers of all his saints simultaneously and individually without
distraction, so I would say it will be no problem for him to effect a quick judgement.
Also note that the judgement probably is outside of time. God is not like us and his
capabilities far exceed our wildest immaginations.

All judgment that would've been conducted by God has been delegated to His son.

• John 5:22 . .The Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son

• Acts 17:31 . . He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the
man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from
the dead.

In other words: the figure that John saw seated upon a great white throne per Rev
20:11-15 is Jesus.

Though the WORD (a.k.a. the Spirit of Christ) is God and can be everywhere at
once; the flesh that the WORD became is a man, and men cannot be everywhere at
once nor every place in time at once. That's one of the limitations that the WORD
took upon himself when he became human
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[Fritz Kobus]

Though the WORD (a.k.a. the Spirit of Christ) is God and can be everywhere at
once; the flesh that the WORD became is a man, and men cannot be everywhere at
once nor every place in time at once. That's one of the limitations that the WORD
took upon himself when he became human
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I would still argue that we cannot limit Jesus to his human body, especially after the resurrection. He told the disciples "and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world" (Matthew 28:20b). So, it appears that He can indeed be present everywhere or anywhere at once.

 

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I would still argue that we cannot limit Jesus to his human body, especially after
the resurrection. He told the disciples "and, lo, I am with you always, even unto
the end of the world" (Matthew 28:20b). So, it appears that He can indeed be
present everywhere or anywhere at once.

There are significant material differences between the Spirit of Christ (John 1:1-3,
Rom 8:9, Gal 4:6) and the human Christ. (John 1:14, 1John 4:2-3)

In other words: the Spirit of Christ is omnipresent whereas the human Christ is not;
and according to Acts 17:31 it will be the human Christ who sits upon the great
white throne depicted at Rev 20:11-15.

NOTE: The Jehovah's Witnesses have a problem with this because they sincerely
insist it is impossible for someone to exist as a spirit being and a human being
simultaneously.
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[Josiah]

It's a parable.



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[Fritz Kobus]

Consider Matthew 25:31-46 where Jesus passes judgment in two actions, one to the group who are righteous (in Him) and one judgement to the unrighteous group. That is two pronouncements, not billions of individual pronouncements. However, that may be true too. When we leave this world, all bets are off on what can and cannot be done and how long it might take.

I think we may be over-analyzing this. The bottom line and what really matters to people in this world is Hebrews 9:27:

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”

How that judgement is effected is a fascinating question, but I think, unanswerable.

 

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• Luke 16:27-29 . . I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have
five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of
torment.

The five brothers would more than likely recognize Lazarus because he was laid at
the rich man's gate; so that whenever they came over for a visit; there he'd be for
them to walk past.

But I have to wonder just what exactly would Lazarus tell them about their
deceased brother's circumstances down in the netherworld. Lazarus would likely tell
the men about his own circumstances too.

When Jesus passed away on the cross, he didn't go up, instead he went down;
likely to the section of the afterlife where Abraham was. Jesus called it paradise,
which is translated from a Greek word meaning a park, e.g. New York's central park
where folks can go for walks in nature, play soccer, bicycle, bird watch, boat, take
in entertainment like concerts and events, even dine.

I've a notion there are lots of little children down in that park too and fully
accommodated with plenty of interesting playground equipment, carousels, pony
rides, possibly even a zoo, and quiet places here and there where kids can sit and
listen to stories read to them from books. Who really knows for sure what to expect
in paradise?

Lazarus might then compare all that to their brother's side of the afterlife.

I can well imagine that the men would be fascinated by Lazarus' tale but not
fascinated enough to make a difference because Abraham assured the rich man
that his brothers wouldn't believe Lazarus; and honestly: who in their right mind
would; especially a tale coming from a no-account indigent whose body covered
with sores very likely wasn't even given a decent burial but instead dumped without
ceremony in a landfill somewhere?
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