Regeneration

[MoreCoffee]

It is strange how we are warned repeatedly to believe to be saved, but they think Jesus was being ironic.

I gave up on what "they think". What they type is splendidly crazy at times. A monument to pride and certainty where neither is appropriate.

 

[atpollard]

I gave up on what "they think". What they type is splendidly crazy at times. A monument to pride and certainty where neither is appropriate.

We believe that the Potter (God) has a right to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use (Rom 9:21), while you believe that the Potter (God) requires your permission to make you a vessel for honorable use ... and you claim WE are building a “monument to pride”?

The folly of synergism that makes the Creator a slave to the will of the creature.
Your confidence is built on a foundation of sand ... the will of fallen man, rather than the power of Sovereign God.

 

[Josiah]

The folly of synergism ....

The central message, the foundation, the keystone, the distinctive mark of the Christian faith is the belief that we are by nature DEAD and we can't do anything about that - "we've fallen and we can't get up", we are sinners. We need to be SAVED, RESCUED.... and that must come from God for ONLY He can do this.... and this has happened, Jesus is the Savior, Jesus does this via His incarnation, life, death and especially resurrection.


The Devil and our dead, sinful, unregenerate self ("the old Adam") will work hard, work overtime, to undermine and deny that. Even in the "old Adam" of the Christian. Trying to make self as BIG as possible ("I ain't that bad, just you are" ) and Christ as LITTLE as possible ("technically, Jesus SAVES no one, He just makes it possible for all to be saved" "Jesus is not the Savior but the divine Helper, Possibility-Maker, Door Opener, Orderer"). Synergism is a fruit of this. Satan is not so stupid to out right deny Jesus but just belittle Him, make Him as impotent and irrelevant as possible.... while making self as well, as good, as capable, as important in the salvation of himself as possible. Make Jesus small.... make self big.


Christianity proclaims that JESUS (not self) IS (really, actually, factually) THE (one and only, all-sufficient) SAVIOR (not just a helper or door opening or possibility-maker). There is no other name under heaven by which salvation can come (including your own). It's call Monergism - there is ONE Savior, and it ain't you, it's Jesus. Christianity directs us to the Cross, not the Mirror.


You'll find LOTS of Christians who will say "Jesus is my Savior" and then go on and on and on and on contradicting that, denouncing that, INSISTING that actually self is the reason self is going to Heaven because SELF did X,Y,Z - ultimately, self doing X,Y,Z is why they will be in heaven (a repudiation of the Gospel, of Christianity, of the central teaching that Jesus is the Savior). They will proclaim (often not realizing it) that they are saying Jesus technically saves no one, He just orders people to be saved and maybe HELPS them in that regard or OPENS THE DOOR to heaven making salvation something we can achieve - anything, anything BUT the Savior. Why? Satan wants all to look away from Christ, to denounce the Gospel (and he likely needs to get us to do this in ways we don't recognize). Satan feeds our ego ("You ain't so bad..... you can do this") and ultimately to credit self and self doing X,Y.Z. and our "old Adam" likes for our ego to be fed and encouraged; we tend to swallow this. It means we abandon Christianity and go to other religions, all of which teach that while people are seriously messed up, it's not something they can't fix with sufficient divine help and time (no need for a SAVIOR but only a HELPER, TEACHER, INSPIRATION, POSSIBILITY-MAKER). In reality, THAT is the soteriology expressed by a lot of Christians. And it's the anti-thesis of Christianity, it's the teaching of Islam and Hinduism and Buddhism.



- Josiah




.

 

[MoreCoffee]

We believe that the Potter (God) has a right to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use (Rom 9:21), while you believe that the Potter (God) requires your permission to make you a vessel for honorable use ... and you claim WE are building a “monument to pride”?

On the contrary. I believe that you haven't got a clue what I believe if your statement represents what you think I believe.

The folly of synergism that makes the Creator a slave to the will of the creature.
Your confidence is built on a foundation of sand ... the will of fallen man, rather than the power of Sovereign God.

 

[Andrew]

On the contrary. I believe that you haven't got a clue what I believe if your statement represents what you think I believe.

You said "they" (I assume us "prophets") unless you want to address specifically who "they" and "prophets" are?

 

[YourTruthGod]

You mean like the Jews did? They didnt even know Him in the flesh and tey had a road map sprinkled all through the Old Testament

Not all Jews knew the Father!

You think the Jews who were cut off were Jews who knew the Father???

 

[YourTruthGod]

I gave up on what "they think". What they type is splendidly crazy at times. A monument to pride and certainty where neither is appropriate.

Well, I love sharpening my sword on them.

 

[NewCreation435]

I am glad we have agreement on this. Many people teach that God just puts faith for Him in their hearts so that they can believe what they hear.
However, God says we get faith by hearing, being taught, convinced, and persuaded. Some people had to see miracles first in the New Testament times.

As for our having to hear someone else preach to us, no. We have access to the Bible and can hear our reading. All we have to do is get Jesus' teachings in the New Testament and do what he says, then we will get saved.

Do you believe a person's heart can be hardened to the point that they are no longer able to be saved?

 

[Andrew]

Well, I love sharpening my sword on them.

You act like believers don't follow the commandments to Love God and Love your neighbors, that we just sit on our hands and slam our faces in a book, you are wrong, any man who claims to have faith but rejects Gods commandments is a liar, and he who says I love God but hate my brother is a murderer.
Stop assuming that we reject repentance and good works, we are just proving that Salvation and Faith comes from God who puts good works in us as his workmanship.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Well, I love sharpening my sword on them.

I suspect that you prefer to plunge your sword into their midriffs

 

[YourTruthGod]

I suspect that you prefer to plunge your sword into their midriffs

You are a false suspect.

 

[YourTruthGod]

You act like believers don't follow the commandments to Love God and Love your neighbors, that we just sit on our hands and slam our faces in a book, you are wrong, any man who claims to have faith but rejects Gods commandments is a liar, and he who says I love God but hate my brother is a murderer.
Stop assuming that we reject repentance and good works, we are just proving that Salvation and Faith comes from God who puts good works in us as his workmanship.

Don't tell me what I act like concerning you. You are the one who says WE CANNOT OBEY UNTIL WE ARE saved. Stop telling me what I assume because you are wrong.

YOU HINDER AND STOP people from getting saved.

That is what your beliefs do.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Do you believe a person's heart can be hardened to the point that they are no longer able to be saved?

Of course there are people whose hearts are so hardened and they don't want to believe and obey the Lord.

 

[Andrew]

Of course there are people whose hearts are so hardened and they don't want to believe and obey the Lord.

Which you accuse many here of doing, you must have Faith to obey the Lord

 

[YourTruthGod]

Which you accuse many here of doing, you must have Faith to obey the Lord

You don't care how much you lean away from the truth, do you? Show one place where I said anyone here is too hardened.

Show it now or repent.

 

[Josiah]

.

 

[Josiah]

Hebrews 11:6

 

[YourTruthGod]

Hebrews 11:6

What do you think that you have proven with that scripture?

Do you think it means God only gives some faith and not others so they can never know Him?

 

[Andrew]

What do you think that you have proven with that scripture?

Do you think it means God only gives some faith and not others so they can never know Him?

Faith comes first

 

[YourTruthGod]

Faith comes first

That is not in the scriptures. Give the scripture that says faith comes first, and I will give you the scripture where Jesus says you can get faith if you do what he says.