Reformed theology?

[donadams]

What is implied by reformed theology? Thanks

 

[Josiah]

What is implied by reformed theology? Thanks

@donadams


What do you mean by "Reformed Theology?

Do you mean the theology affirmed by Luther? Or Lutheranism?

Do you mean the theology affirmed by John Calvin?

Do you mean the radicalization of the theology of John Calvin by those who actually disagreed with him on many points?

Do you mean TULIP theology?

Do you mean the Anabaptists or Zwinglian radical Reformers?

Do you mean Anglicanism?

And what do you mean by IMPLIED?



There were several Reformations (and their views are at times known as "Reformed")

1. The "Magisterium" or Conservative Reformation is usually associated with Luther and, to a lesser degree, John Calvin. Anglicanism (The English Reformation) is often grouped here, too. These were not revolutions or repudiations but calls for very focused (and limited) reforms - both in terms of church practice at the time and also some theological points. But they largely embraced the Fathers, Councils, Tradition and customs of the past and of the Catholic Church. In my signature line of every post of mine (including here), at the VERY bottom, is a link "What I Like About Lutheranism" or something like that. Click on that and you can read more. Start a thread and I can expand.

2. The Radical Reformation. This is associated with Zwingli, the Anabaptists and sometimes with some who originally were followers of Calvin but radicalized his views and disagreed with Calvin on several key points (TULIP is often given as a summery of their stressed points). Calvin's Reformation was largely "stollen" by later radicals so today what is sometimes called "Calvinists" isn't the faith of John Calvin at all, thus the much better term is "Reformed." It's the Reform of Calvin; a radicalization of Calvin. Often when you speak to Protestants and say "Reformed" this is what they assume you mean. All of these various groups , were largely revolutions, repudiations of the church and past (to variant degrees) with new ideas and practices, lots of "we now reject this, we now are starting this" in both doctrines and practices. The views of these 3 very different groups influenced each other and are often mixed uniquely in the many forms of "Evangelicalism" forms of Protestantism. It's not unusual for them to be blended together now in people's thoughts of "Protestantism."

There are other later and more radical "reformations" as well, but these are usually focused on rebellions from Protestantism. Friends, Oneness, Pentecostalism, LDS, JW, etc. Most however do not refer to these as Reformed or even Reformation. Some of these CLAIM to be restorations of the Apostolic Church and thus are sometimes called "Restorationists."

As a Catholic, you should know that these don't get along! As a Lutheran, it's not unusual for me to "align" and "sympathize" more with the Catholic Church than group #2 above and certainly more than the Restorationists and modern sects. Here at CH for example, you'll often find the Lutherans and Anglicans "on the same page" and you may find them agreeing with Catholicism on many points. And you may find some "Reformed" disagreeing with everyone, including themselves, LOL. Ain't it fun?


A blessed Christmas to you and yours.....


- Josiah




.

 

[Albion]

It either refers to Protestantism in general (as having brought reform to the Medieval Catholic Church) or to the beliefs and practices identified with Calvinist churches in particular (Christian Reformed, Reformed Baptist, or Presbyterian are examples).

 

[donadams]

Just wondering how can truth be reformed? Truth is immutable and maybe divine. Truth comes from God and Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
Same for the church founded by Christ the spotless bride prepared by God out of heaven needs reform? Did God err in revealing truth and founding the church?

what authority did any so-called reformer have from Christ?

only apostles have authority from Christ.

 

[Albion]

Just wondering how can truth be reformed?

It's not that truth itself can be changed, but the religious beliefs and practices of a church may need to be reformed (repaired, restored, straightened out, etc.).

Same for the church founded by Christ the spotless bride prepared by God out of heaven needs reform? Did God err in revealing truth and founding the church?

what authority did any so-called reformer have from Christ?

The Bible was their authority. It is the word of God and, therefore, the ultimate guide. Whether or not any reformer has the right to go so far as to start a brand new church because he or she has a grievance against the existing ones depends on a lot of other factors.

only apostles have authority from Christ.

Only in certain respects. The Apostles--and now their successors--are the chief administrators of Christ's church and entrusted with maintaining the true faith. They are not authorized to change Christ's teachings or instructions, of course.

 

[Josiah]

Just wondering how can truth be reformed?

@donadams


It can't be, obviously. But what people may call "truth" can be false.

But again, it depends on what you mean by "reformed." There's a new Catholic Catechism published every few years, ALWAYS WITH CHANGES. The changes are the only reason to write a new one. Why is that needed? Well, to clarify or expand ("reform") what was previously written.

Truth is immutable and maybe divine. Truth comes from God and Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6

Everyone agrees on that point.

They don't all agree that Truth is whatever some person, church, denomination, sect or cult claims it is.

Same for the church founded by Christ the spotless bride prepared by God out of heaven needs reform?

Brother, consider Adam and Eve. Did God DIRECTLY establish them? As holy and sinless? Yes. Thus, were they kept from all possibility of error, were they incapable of error? Were they unaccountable and not responsible? No.

Consider the "people of God" (Israel) in the Old Testament. Did God found them as his chosen people? Was the "church" all established directly by God (right down to what the priests must wear)? Yes. Did it still err and need Reform? Many times. Ever heard of the Judges? the Prophets? I'm named for one of the Reformers of that "church" God directly established among the Hebrews.....

Consider the many times every church (including yours) needed reform. All the Councils to correct errors in the church. All the rulings. All the things Popes and Bishops must do to correct errors. It happens in all churches.

Yes, we all know the CLAIM that the Catholic Church itself makes for it itself alone (the same one the LDS itself makes for it itself alone; pretty much all cults - not remotely suggesting the Catholic Church is a cult only that the claim it makes for it itself is far from unique). None have ever agreed with this claim of the Catholic Church by itself for itself. Know what happened in 1054? But many see this as just an avoidance of accountability and responsibility: "I can't err so I can't err when I claim I can't err so I can't err." "Me and God are in the same totally unique camp, we are infallible." Some just don't agree. Now, IF God in Scripture had stated, "The unique Roman Catholic Church as an institution can do and teach no wrong" we might have a conversation, but.... well.... you know.

SO, since it seems where humans are involved, error also can be involved (even where GOD directly established such); one simply claiming "But I say that I'm uniquely incapable of being wrong, says I" is no proof that such is the case, in fact I think most of us would agree that's a pretty good sign that he's NOT what he claims.


Brother, this is an ecumenical community. We're here to discuss. Someone simply shouting, "I can't be wrong so I can't be wrong when I myself claim I can't be wrong" just doesn't move the discussion forward. When it can progress, it's usually because we're appealing to something outside of our own church, denomination, sect, etc.

Dan, it's GOOD to know our various positions! And so it's GREAT to have very knowledgeable, articulate Catholics "at the table" so we can know the actual teaching of your church. That's really appreciated! An very helpful! But simply shrouding that with "and my church says it can't be wrong so it isn't wrong" accomplishes nothing and often drags the discussion to a stop. Or worse.


On the papacy, see this (Posts 1 and also 2)

Matthew 16:18 and the RCC's Claim of a Papacy of Itself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znTo8uH4Tw8 Related... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_oN1PMy34k .

www.christianityhaven.com

I sincerely hope that helps.


A blessed Christmas to you and yours...


- Josiah



.

 

[donadams]

It's not that truth itself can be changed, but the religious beliefs and practices of a church may need to be reformed (repaired, restored, straightened out, etc.).




The Bible was their authority. It is the word of God and, therefore, the ultimate guide. Whether or not any reformer has the right to go so far as to start a brand new church because he or she has a grievance against the existing ones depends on a lot of other factors.

Only in certain respects. The Apostles--and now their successors--are the chief administrators of Christ's church and entrusted with maintaining the true faith. They are not authorized to change Christ's teachings or instructions, of course.

Yea they are in union with Christ Jn 14:5 only Christ has authority to found the one true church Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16 thanks

 

[donadams]

@donadams


It can't be, obviously. But what people may call "truth" can be false.

But again, it depends on what you mean by "reformed." There's a new Catholic Catechism published every few years, ALWAYS WITH CHANGES. The changes are the only reason to write a new one. Why is that needed? Well, to clarify or expand ("reform") what was previously written.






Everyone agrees on that point.

They don't all agree that Truth is whatever some person, church, denomination, sect or cult claims it is.






Brother, consider Adam and Eve. Did God DIRECTLY establish them? As holy and sinless? Yes. Thus, were they kept from all possibility of error, were they incapable of error? Were they unaccountable and not responsible? No.

Consider the "people of God" (Israel) in the Old Testament. Did God found them as his chosen people? Was the "church" all established directly by God (right down to what the priests must wear)? Yes. Did it still err and need Reform? Many times. Ever heard of the Judges? the Prophets? I'm named for one of the Reformers of that "church" God directly established among the Hebrews.....

Consider the many times every church (including yours) needed reform. All the Councils to correct errors in the church. All the rulings. All the things Popes and Bishops must do to correct errors. It happens in all churches.

Yes, we all know the CLAIM that the Catholic Church itself makes for it itself alone (the same one the LDS itself makes for it itself alone; pretty much all cults - not remotely suggesting the Catholic Church is a cult only that the claim it makes for it itself is far from unique). None have ever agreed with this claim of the Catholic Church by itself for itself. Know what happened in 1054? But many see this as just an avoidance of accountability and responsibility: "I can't err so I can't err when I claim I can't err so I can't err." "Me and God are in the same totally unique camp, we are infallible." Some just don't agree. Now, IF God in Scripture had stated, "The unique Roman Catholic Church as an institution can do and teach no wrong" we might have a conversation, but.... well.... you know.

SO, since it seems where humans are involved, error also can be involved (even where GOD directly established such); one simply claiming "But I say that I'm uniquely incapable of being wrong, says I" is no proof that such is the case, in fact I think most of us would agree that's a pretty good sign that he's NOT what he claims.


Brother, this is an ecumenical community. We're here to discuss. Someone simply shouting, "I can't be wrong so I can't be wrong when I myself claim I can't be wrong" just doesn't move the discussion forward. When it can progress, it's usually because we're appealing to something outside of our own church, denomination, sect, etc.

Dan, it's GOOD to know our various positions! And so it's GREAT to have very knowledgeable, articulate Catholics "at the table" so we can know the actual teaching of your church. That's really appreciated! An very helpful! But simply shrouding that with "and my church says it can't be wrong so it isn't wrong" accomplishes nothing and often drags the discussion to a stop. Or worse.


I sincerely hope that helps.


A blessed Christmas to you and yours...


- Josiah



.

Yes thanks I’m learning a lot here
One question God not only founded the one true church but also declared the gates shall not prevail Matt 16:18-19 and you shall know the truth and the HS guides the apostles/ bishops in the church Jn 16:13 and they must teach the nations / people Matt 28:19 without error Lk 10:16 if the church teaches error Christ teaches error! The church and Christ are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32
Let know you’re thoughts and insights thanks

 

[Josiah]

Yes thanks I’m learning a lot here

@donadams


It's why we are here.... to learn from each other.

One question God not only founded the one true church but also declared the gates shall not prevail Matt 16:18-19 and you shall know the truth and the HS guides the apostles/ bishops in the church Jn 16:13 and they must teach the nations / people Matt 28:19 without error Lk 10:16 if the church teaches error Christ teaches error! The church and Christ are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32
Let know you’re thoughts and insights thanks

Some thoughts..... to be held together.... if you are willing to consider these (not easy) points....


1. Yes, Jesus founded His church. But Protestants understand that church as non-institutional; we understand that as "the community of believers", "the Body of Christ", consisting of all Christians (past and present), with Jesus as the Head. Yes, Jesus promises that the Holy Spirit will lead His church - this corpus of all believers - but we reject the idea that the Holy Spirit will only lead one earthly institution, one denomination or any one person.


2. Where humans are involved, error can happen. Again, as mentioned earlier, consider Adam and Eve in the Garden. Did God establish them? Were they holy? Did God guide them? Did that mean ergo they were infallible and unaccountable and void or responsibility? God established the Kingdom (beginning with Saul) but did that mean all the kings (until the last in 587 BC) were incapable of error, unaccountable, void of any responsibility? God chose the Hebrews as His special people. Did that make them inerrant, unaccountable, void of any responsibility? Jesus chose 12 Apostles, gave them responsibilities, did that make them sinless, infallible, void of any responsibility? Nope. Jesus established His church - His Body - "the communion of saints." But while all Christians are saints via forgiveness, they are also sinners.


3. Your church has a LONG history of reforms. Church synods and councils. All kinds of changes meant to reform/correct/clarify teachings and practices. The reality that your pastor is unmarried is the result of just one of the countless Reformations your church has had over the centuries. That Kingdom God established for His Chosen People had a long series of Judges and Prophets and other Reformers (I'm named for one, LOL) and the reason they were needed is because that Kingdom God established erred. Martin Luther was a "Doctor of the Church" so designated by his Archbishop, his duty to look for false teachings and bring that to the attention of the local bishop; an acknowledgement that error can happen. One of the main responsibilities of your bishop is to supervise the teachings and practices in his diocese, and the reason that's needed and considered very important is that the Catholic Church acknowledges that error happens. And needs to be corrected.


4. Protestants have nothing against earthly institutions. Indeed, while Jesus never established one, His Apostles did (some of Paul's are recorded in Acts). But we don't equate any of our human, earthly institutions with Jesus' Church, the "church catholic." St. James Catholic Church of Jamestown ND is not the Body of Christ (those Christians gather there are PART of that, however). That parish is an earthy institution. The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod is not the Body of Christ (although the Christians in the parishes that associate together in the LCMS are PART of the Body of Christ). This concept of the church catholic (the communion of saints) is acknowledged by the Catholic Church but it's pretty much buried by all the claims of itself to be "The Church." This was one of the major disagreements of the Reformation.

For more: Issues of the Reformation: The Church


5. Authority and Accountability go hand-in-hand. Even Jesus Himself (the one we'd all agree is just right because of who He is!) never asked for blind, docilic submission. Rather He "normed" His teachings by referring to Scripture (He quoted or referenced such about 50 times in the 4 Gospel Books) and by pointing to His miracles and especially future Resurrection. Because falsehood can happen wherever humans are present, accountability/responsibility matters. Those with highest authority also have highest accountability. An individual person (Pope Francis, Martin Luther, Jim Jones, Joseph Smith, St Augustine, Pelagius) CAN be wrong and that doesn't change just because Joseph Smith insists that there is one who is exempt from that and (guess what) that one is, well, him. Just him. Or a denomination (don't cringe at that word - we ONLY mean an association of parishes) that does the same thing: "There's ONE who can't be wrong, and that ONE (surprise!) is ME." All that means is ONE seeks to have all Authority with no accountability (outside self, anyway). It is NOT an easy subject!

You can pursue this more here:

Issues of the Reformation: Scripture

. Issues of the Reformation: THE BIBLE One of the really important issues concerns Authority and Epistemology. The issue of Authority is what trumps what (or who)…. The issue of Epistemology is how do we know what is true? Both are very interconnected and both were major issues in the...

www.christianityhaven.com

My personal thoughts on keeping the balance between Authority and Accountability:

Christianity, Authority and Individualism

. Authority? Who or what is the Authority in Christianity? For you? It seems to me there was a paradigm shift in history.... and we may not be as aware or sensitive to this as perhaps we should? WHO/WHAT is the teaching authority for Christians? WHO/WHAT? Christians are to submit to...

www.christianityhaven.com

@donadams

I'm EAGER to discuss our various perspectives with anyone of any view as long as there is mutual respect and willingness to discuss. It's worthless to simply have two shouting matches, neither listening or considering, neither open to accountability and a willingness to admit possible fault, weakness or error.




Blessings on your Christmas!


- Josiah



.

 

[donadams]

@donadams


It's why we are here.... to learn from each other.





Some thoughts..... to be held together.... if you are willing to consider these (not easy) points....


1. Yes, Jesus founded His church. But Protestants understand that church as non-institutional; we understand that as "the community of believers", "the Body of Christ", consisting of all Christians (past and present), with Jesus as the Head. Yes, Jesus promises that the Holy Spirit will lead His church - this corpus of all believers - but we reject the idea that the Holy Spirit will only lead one earthly institution, one denomination or any one person.

God establishes peace and order by obedience to jurisdiction hierarchical authority not by spiritual anarchy

2. Where humans are involved, error can happen. Again, as mentioned earlier, consider Adam and Eve in the Garden. Did God establish them? Were they holy? Did God guide them? Did that mean ergo they were infallible and unaccountable and void or responsibility? God established the Kingdom (beginning with Saul) but did that mean all the kings (until the last in 587 BC) were incapable of error, unaccountable, void of any responsibility? God chose the Hebrews as His special people. Did that make them inerrant, unaccountable, void of any responsibility? Jesus chose 12 Apostles, gave them responsibilities, did that make them sinless, infallible, void of any responsibility? Nope. Jesus established His church - His Body - "the communion of saints." But while all Christians are saints via forgiveness, they are also sinners.

Not the teaching of the universal church or Christ would be teaching error Lk 10:16 Jn 16:13 Matt 28:19

3. Your church has a LONG history of reforms. Church synods and councils. All kinds of changes meant to reform/correct/clarify teachings and practices. The reality that your pastor is unmarried is the result of just one of the countless Reformations your church has had over the centuries. That Kingdom God established for His Chosen People had a long series of Judges and Prophets and other Reformers (I'm named for one, LOL) and the reason they were needed is because that Kingdom God established erred. Martin Luther was a "Doctor of the Church" so designated by his Archbishop, his duty to look for false teachings and bring that to the attention of the local bishop; an acknowledgement that error can happen. One of the main responsibilities of your bishop is to supervise the teachings and practices in his diocese, and the reason that's needed and considered very important is that the Catholic Church acknowledges that error happens. And needs to be corrected.

not reforms definition and decrees but not reforms to reform is to change

4. Protestants have nothing against earthly institutions. Indeed, while Jesus never established one, His Apostles did (some of Paul's are recorded in Acts). But we don't equate any of our human, earthly institutions with Jesus' Church, the "church catholic." St. James Catholic Church of Jamestown ND is not the Body of Christ (those Christians gather there are PART of that, however). That parish is an earthy institution. The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod is not the Body of Christ (although the Christians in the parishes that associate together in the LCMS are PART of the Body of Christ). This concept of the church catholic (the communion of saints) is acknowledged by the Catholic Church but it's pretty much buried by all the claims of itself to be "The Church." This was one of the major disagreements of the Reformation.

For more: Issues of the Reformation: The Church


only Christ has authority to found the church all others are sects the tradition of men

5. Authority and Accountability go hand-in-hand. Even Jesus Himself (the one we'd all agree is just right because of who He is!) never asked for blind, docilic submission. Rather He "normed" His teachings by referring to Scripture (He quoted or referenced such about 50 times in the 4 Gospel Books) and by pointing to His miracles and especially future Resurrection. Because falsehood can happen wherever humans are present, accountability/responsibility matters. Those with highest authority also have highest accountability. An individual person (Pope Francis, Martin Luther, Jim Jones, Joseph Smith, St Augustine, Pelagius) CAN be wrong and that doesn't change just because Joseph Smith insists that there is one who is exempt from that and (guess what) that one is, well, him. Just him. Or a denomination (don't cringe at that word - we ONLY mean an association of parishes) that does the same thing: "There's ONE who can't be wrong, and that ONE (surprise!) is ME." All that means is ONE seeks to have all Authority with no accountability (outside self, anyway). It is NOT an easy subject!

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

You can pursue this more here:

Issues of the Reformation: Scripture

. Issues of the Reformation: THE BIBLE One of the really important issues concerns Authority and Epistemology. The issue of Authority is what trumps what (or who)…. The issue of Epistemology is how do we know what is true? Both are very interconnected and both were major issues in the...

www.christianityhaven.com

My personal thoughts on keeping the balance between Authority and Accountability:

Christianity, Authority and Individualism

. Authority? Who or what is the Authority in Christianity? For you? It seems to me there was a paradigm shift in history.... and we may not be as aware or sensitive to this as perhaps we should? WHO/WHAT is the teaching authority for Christians? WHO/WHAT? Christians are to submit to...

www.christianityhaven.com

@donadams

I'm EAGER to discuss our various perspectives with anyone of any view as long as there is mutual respect and willingness to discuss. It's worthless to simply have two shouting matches, neither listening or considering, neither open to accountability and a willingness to admit possible fault, weakness or error.




Blessings on your Christmas!


- Josiah

You too thanks

I think we all have insights and wisdom to learn from for example acts 8 how did the eunuch know about baptism?

.

 

[Josiah]

@donadams

It seems to me you're not willing to discuss the issue. Or to learn the Protestant perspective. So I think we're done.

Blessings


.

 

[donadams]

@donadams

It seems to me you're not willing to discuss the issue. Or to learn the Protestant perspective. So I think we're done.

Blessings


.

Am I supposed to ignore scripture?

 

[Josiah]

Am I supposed to ignore scripture?

Friend,

Obviously, you are not interested in discussing this important topic. Nor looking at what Scripture states and does not state. And as a former Catholic myself, I TOTALLY "get" why you don't want to open this box.

So, rest in what the Catholic Church has told you about itself. And don't examine it. That's fine. That's respected. That's up to you. But then, brother, don't suggest you are interested in learning the Protestant perspective when you clearly aren't, or that you are interested in discussing the important issues involved when clearly you just want to parrot the claims of your church for itself.

No hard feelings, no disrespect. You want to hold to what your church says. Okay. But then we're done and staff can close the thread.




.

 

[donadams]

Friend,

Obviously, you are not interested in discussing this important topic. Nor looking at what Scripture states and does not state. And as a former Catholic myself, I TOTALLY "get" why you don't want to open this box.

So, rest in what the Catholic Church has told you about itself. And don't examine it. That's fine. That's respected. That's up to you. But then, brother, don't suggest you are interested in learning the Protestant perspective when you clearly aren't, or that you are interested in discussing the important issues involved when clearly you just want to parrot the claims of your church for itself.

No hard feelings, no disrespect. You want to hold to what your church says. Okay. But then we're done and staff can close the thread.




.

I’m trying to understand you’re propositions but it must be done with scripture
Do you believe the first sola “faith alone”?

what does that mean? Thanks

 

[Albion]

What do you think it means? And what do you disagree with when it comes to this principle?

It's asking a lot for anyone to teach Protestant or Reformed Theology to somebody who knows next to nothing about it...and also do it through a series of Q&As on a discussion board. But if you generally understand the beliefs and the reasons for them, it would be a much easier task.

 

[Albion]

Yes thanks I’m learning a lot here
One question God not only founded the one true church but also declared the gates shall not prevail Matt 16:18-19

and the gates of hell have not prevailed against it! Christianity is the largest religion in the world, the most widely distributed, and it's still growing.

The verse you cited assures us that the gates of hell will not PREVAIL. That does not say there will never ever be any mistaken or false belief or practice that affects the Church of Christ (and needs to be corrected). As Josiah noted, the Roman Catholic Church has gone through many reform movements of its own.

 

[Josiah]

I’m trying to understand you’re propositions

@donadams


Brother, then begin by reading posts 6 and 9.

If you have questions about any of the points there, quote the section of the post and ask.

If you wish to give your view on anything I specifically posted, fine. Just quote the part you wish to respond to and then give your response.

but it must be done with scripture

An odd thing for a faithful Catholic to say, but just so I understand your mandated rubric, you wish to only use the words in Scripture as the source and norm (Sola Scriptura - a principle denounced by your church but hey, I'm more than willing). If so, that's fine but it would require you to abandon Catholic epistemology.

We can begin with the nature of the church. BIG subject, but since you demand we stick to the words found in the Bible, we'll see that your church is never mentioned there, at all, for anything. So it's not promised with anything (can't be if it's not even mentioned), not authorized with anything (can't be since it's not even mentioned).

And we can talk about accountability. Scriptures that exempt anyone from that.

Do you believe the first sola “faith alone”? what does that mean? Thanks

Well, you just jumped over everything so far discussed. Is that because you don't want to discuss anything above?

IF you want to skip all the above and move to Soteriology, okay. Sola Fide is one aspect of the Protestant view which is SOLA GRATIA - SOLUS CHRISTUS - SOLA FIDE - SOLI DEO GLORIA. All one inseparable doctrine. And (Catholics tend to miss this point) it ONLY concerns personal justification in the narrow sense, the sense of a changed relationship, what some Protestants call "born again" and some Catholics call "initial grace." It does not concern the whole of our Call or the entirely of soteriology, that's a much bigger subject.

Decide if you want to discuss the church and the issues related to epistemology (see posts 6 and 9) or drop that and look at justification (narrow). It's impossible to mix up everything (and it means we make no progress). I'm not going to bounce all around. Pick a subject to discuss.



IF you want to switch to personal justification (narrow) then I refer you to these..... read these completely

Read posts 1-3 here:

Issues in the Reformation: Salvation

Issues of the Reformation: Salvation This was the KEY ISSUE. It was the one issue over which the church of the day used to excommunicate Luther, split the denomination and drive the Reformation. There were several other main issues (ecclesiology, epistemology and several others), but this was...

www.christianityhaven.com

.

 

[donadams]

What do you think it means? And what do you disagree with when it comes to this principle?

It's asking a lot for anyone to teach Protestant or Reformed Theology to somebody who knows next to nothing about it...and also do it through a series of Q&As on a discussion board. But if you generally understand the beliefs and the reasons for them, it would be a much easier task.

Do enlighten me as you know best

 

[donadams]

and the gates of hell have not prevailed against it! Christianity is the largest religion in the world, the most widely distributed, and it's still growing.

The verse you cited assures us that the gates of hell will not PREVAIL. That does not say there will never ever be any mistaken or false belief or practice that affects the Church of Christ (and needs to be corrected). As Josiah noted, the Roman Catholic Church has gone through many reform movements of its own.

Do you agree with these statements?
Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

 

[Albion]

Do you agree with these statements?
Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

I think you have misunderstood all of those verses! Probably simply because what you wrote is what someone else taught you at some time in the past.

More important, though, it looks like you really want to teach Roman Catholicism to us rather than have us help you understand Protestant/Reformed theology.