Outside the church there is no Salvation ( discussion)

[psalms 91]

I am posting this thread for discussion of the main thread by those other than Catholics since the thread is marked Catholics only and I feel this needs questioned by thiose outside that church. I respect the tag and am hoping when one is posted as Charasmatic or Pentecostal only it to will be respected. On the face of it It is saying that all others that are outside the Catholic church are not saved and this is wrong except in their own minds and is an example of the double speak that I get when I call a Catholic on doctrine. They say no, we recognize other Christians but yet in their doctrine it is clear that they dont.

 

[Biblicist]

I am posting this thread for discussion of the main thread by those other than Catholics since the thread is marked Catholics only and I feel this needs questioned by thiose outside that church. I respect the tag and am hoping when one is posted as Charasmatic or Pentecostal only it to will be respected. On the face of it It is saying that all others that are outside the Catholic church are not saved and this is wrong except in their own minds and is an example of the double speak that I get when I call a Catholic on doctrine. They say no, we recognize other Christians but yet in their doctrine it is clear that they dont.

How would this relate to those who maybe pick up a Gideon's Bible in a hotel, where they read the Gospel for the first time and are savvy enough to repent and confess Christ as their Saviour?

 

[psalms 91]

How would this relate to those who maybe pick up a Gideon's Bible in a hotel, where they read the Gospel for the first time and are savvy enough to repent and confess Christ as their Saviour?

If those outside the church are not saved then they would have to run and join the Catholic church or they wouldnt be saved, of course this is false but it is easy to see how they view the rest of us. I guess Jesus isnt enough, you need a priest as well.

 

[Biblicist]

If those outside the church are not saved then they would have to run and join the Catholic church or they wouldnt be saved, of course this is false but it is easy to see how they view the rest of us. I guess Jesus isnt enough, you need a priest as well.

Oh, so you are referring to the Roman Catholic church as against that of the Universal Church, that changes your question a bit, or at least as to how it should be answered.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I think I must have posted in something tagged as Catholic only. That was a mistake. Tapatalk on my phone makes such denotations somewhat hidden.
I still think that churech isn't sinonimous with the building but the congregation. It states repeatedly not to trust man and to test/ verify through scripture. This seems to nullify any real need for a church as a tool for salvation. Surely it helps one stay the course but isn't pertinent for salvation.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[psalms 91]

Oh, so you are referring to the Roman Catholic church as against that of the Universal Church, that changes your question a bit, or at least as to how it should be answered.

This thread is an offshoot of the Catholic only thread so yes I am referring to the Catholic church. As for what you wrote I agree to an extent but I do believe that we need to assemble ourselves together according to scripture. I also believe that the church is a hospital for sinners, not a club for saints. We hgather together to be strenfthened, to recover from our battles with satan, what we face outside the church and yes to learn mopre and gain spirituality in order to help and bring people to Christ. We should leave church energized and on fire to go win sould.

 

[Josiah]

I am posting this thread for discussion of the main thread by those other than Catholics since the thread is marked Catholics only and I feel this needs questioned by thiose outside that church. I respect the tag and am hoping when one is posted as Charasmatic or Pentecostal only it to will be respected. On the face of it It is saying that all others that are outside the Catholic church are not saved and this is wrong except in their own minds and is an example of the double speak that I get when I call a Catholic on doctrine. They say no, we recognize other Christians but yet in their doctrine it is clear that they dont.

1. The RC Denomination is OBSESSED with power..... As a denomination. This claim - that there's no salvation outside of Itself - flows from this.

2. The RC Denomination is extremely, radically egotistical, to the point of virtual self-deification, essentially equating Itself (as a denomination) with God Himself. This claim - that there's no salvation outside of ITself - flows from this, as well.

3. The RC Denomination places little (to no) focus on Jesus as the Savior, so in view of it's egoism and power-grab and self-deification, it's understandable that salvation is claimed to be essentially something IT provides.

Sad, really.....



Now, if we properly understand "church" as CHRISTIANS, the whole corpus of Christian people across the centuries and continents, the "one holy catholic communion of saints" - then there is a SENSE in which it is true: there is no salvation outside the church. It's true ONLY in the sense that people become believers via believers, and this seems to be just as Jesus established things. Christians sharing the faith, Christians preaching and teaching and baptizing. The "church" is the context, the vehicle in which God seems to work. But of course this has NOTHING to do with any denomination (especially since denomination's cannot share or preach or teach or baptize or even believe - only PEOPLE can); so this has NOTHING at all, NOTHING whatsoever to do with the OOC or EOC or RCC or UCC or LDS or UPC or URC or any other denominational institution - never has, never will. Those claiming such just suffer from the points above.




MY half cent.


Pax


- Josiah

 

[Hammster]

The RCC pronounces anathema if you don't hold to certain positions (justification by faith alone; transubstantiation, etc). They don't claim that this damns you to hell, but that you are cut off from the Church which, if you stay in that state, you'll be damned to hell.

 

[Brighten04]

I am so happy that I was not raised in the RCC.

 

[Alithis]

I am posting this thread for discussion of the main thread by those other than Catholics since the thread is marked Catholics only and I feel this needs questioned by those outside that church. I respect the tag and am hoping when one is posted as Charismatic or Pentecostal only it to will be respected. On the face of it It is saying that all others that are outside the Catholic church are not saved and this is wrong except in their own minds and is an example of the double speak that I get when I call a Catholic on doctrine. They say no, we recognize other Christians but yet in their doctrine it is clear that they don't.

the church is made up of a gathering together of those who have by faith in the lord jesus been saved and in whom the Spirit of the living god indwells -it is not a man made organizations and it is not a set of buildings .and its head is the lord Jesus himself and NONE OTHER .

sadly, while those in whom the spirit of God dwells congregate , many other in whom many evil spirits dwell gather together with them .tares among the wheat and still others lie and usurp authority over the body calling themselves its head .filed with lies and blasphemies they are of the Devil . but comes the day soon now that the lord will separate the tares from the wheat and the wheat he will gather into his barn and the tares wil be cast into the fire which does not cease to burn and thier idols will not save them

 

[popsthebuilder]

The RCC pronounces anathema if you don't hold to certain positions (justification by faith alone; transubstantiation, etc). They don't claim that this damns you to hell, but that you are cut off from the Church which, if you stay in that state, you'll be damned to hell.

Sounds like a pretty good scam.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Alithis]

Sounds like a pretty good scam.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

its existence and self proclaimed authority is a scam

 

[popsthebuilder]

its existence and self proclaimed authority is a scam

I'm aware. Glad others are too!

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I am posting this thread for discussion of the main thread by those other than Catholics since the thread is marked Catholics only and I feel this needs questioned by thiose outside that church. I respect the tag and am hoping when one is posted as Charasmatic or Pentecostal only it to will be respected. On the face of it It is saying that all others that are outside the Catholic church are not saved and this is wrong except in their own minds and is an example of the double speak that I get when I call a Catholic on doctrine. They say no, we recognize other Christians but yet in their doctrine it is clear that they dont.

I'm not sure this is correct. I've never been told by any Catholic that I am not "saved", nor a Christian. It's relatively clear that I am one of the "separated brethren" in the eyes of the Catholic church, but I've not heard that this somehow "disqualifies" me from the work of Christ in my life. It's true that I have family who would like to see me as a member of the "One True Church", but there are dogmas of the Catholic church that I don't accept as truth, and it keeps me from taking that step. They know that, but it doesn't stop them from trying!

 

[Biblicist]

The RCC pronounces anathema if you don't hold to certain positions (justification by faith alone; transubstantiation, etc). They don't claim that this damns you to hell, but that you are cut off from the Church which, if you stay in that state, you'll be damned to hell.

I think that MoreCoffee would be forgiven if he felt the need to jump in by pointing out that the Roman Catholics DO NOT hold to 'justification by faith alone'.

Edit: Typo

 

[Hammster]

I think that MoreCoffee would be forgiven if he felt the need to jump in by pointing out that the Roman Cathoilics DO NOT hold to 'justification by faith alone'.

My bad. I should have said that if you hold to justification by faith alone, you are anathema.

 

[Biblicist]

My bad. I should have said that if you hold to justification by faith alone, you are anathema.

We've undoutedly all done much the same thing from time to time, where we can be lucky if we notice our typo's not long after pressing the <submit> button. I was very tempted to subcomb to my human nature by pretending to suggest that you were saying "Hey, are you saying that all those who hold to 'justification by faith' that we are cursed", but being the nice guy that I am (also humble and contrite), I decided that I wouldn't.

 

[Hammster]

Here's one are where they've gone off the rails:

20. Our thoughts turn first to those Christians who make open confession of Jesus Christ as God and Lord and as the sole Mediator between God and men, to the glory of the one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We are aware indeed that there exist considerable divergences from the doctrine of the Catholic Church concerning Christ Himself, the Word of God made flesh, the work of redemption, and consequently, concerning the mystery and ministry of the Church, and the role of Mary in the plan of salvation.

 

[psalms 91]

Here's one are where they've gone off the rails:

20. Our thoughts turn first to those Christians who make open confession of Jesus Christ as God and Lord and as the sole Mediator between God and men, to the glory of the one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We are aware indeed that there exist considerable divergences from the doctrine of the Catholic Church concerning Christ Himself, the Word of God made flesh, the work of redemption, and consequently, concerning the mystery and ministry of the Church, and the role of Mary in the plan of salvation.

We agree I think, Mary has absolutely nothing to do with salvation for there is salvation in only one and it isnt Mary

 

[Alithis]

We agree I think, Mary has absolutely nothing to do with salvation for there is salvation in only one and it isnt Mary

the lord soon comes and he will separate the tares and their lies from the true wheat of HIS church .. the rcc is Romes church .its teachings are not from the bible .its authority is not god given