Ordination

[MoreCoffee]

What is ordination, do you think?

And anointing?

[Edit: oops, wrong place, this should be in Theology]

 

[Josiah]

@MoreCoffee

This video shares a lot on this from a Lutheran perspective....

This is 57 minutes long, probably beyond the attention span of most here, but if it is for you, this might help:
16:30-22:00 Luther's ordination
48:00-57:00 Lutheran ordinations.

What is key here...

1. Lutherans affirm the "inner call" (inner "tugging" of the Holy Spirit) BUT reject that this (alone) makes for a valid ordination, THAT requires an act of the church (the people of God) extending a Call and affirming one in that Call. Lutherans (as well as Anglican and Calvinism) reject the idea of Anabaptists and Zwinglians (ancestors of Evangelicals) that one can simply affirm self as a pastor via that inner call. The church has a critical and essential role here.

2. Luther's ordination as both a priest and Doctor (a role of doctrinal supervision) were valid.

3. Is it valid for a validly ordained priest (as thousands of early Lutherans were) to then ordain others? Is Apostolic Succession continuing? Are these valid? Catholics will argue they are not because a Roman Catholic BISHOP did not ordain these. In minutes 48-57, the video will show that's actually an invalid Catholic position. We KNOW that priests ordained priests without any bishop in the early church, indeed to the time of Luther. A Council in the 15th Century specifically states they may do so. Indeed, it's not clear that God designated bishop as a separete office from priest ... although the Church developed this office as supervisors of priest: God didn't, the church did. But the church did not make this absolute. Now, it's true, in the late Middle Ages, priests could ordain priests "with the approval of the Pope" so Catholic will stress the RCC Pope was involved by giving permission but again, that's the RCC not God saying that... and it gives the Lutheran/Anglican/Calvinist point that a Bishop need not do the ordaining for it to be valid.


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[Lamb]

What is ordination, do you think?

And anointing?

[Edit: oops, wrong place, this should be in Theology]

What's your definition of anointing? Maybe then I can answer

 

[MoreCoffee]

What's your definition of anointing? Maybe then I can answer

Anointing is a symbol of the Holy Spirit, whose anointing of Jesus as Messiah fulfilled the prophesies of the Old Testament. Christ (in Hebrew, Messiah) means the one anointed by the Holy Spirit. Anointing is also the sacramental sign of confirmation, called Chrismation in the Churches of the east. Anointings form part of the liturgical rites of the catechumenate, and of the sacraments of Baptism and Holy Orders.

 

[SetFree]

Apostle James told us to anoint with oil in the name of The Lord.

James 5:14-15
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
KJV

The early Christian Church did that, and I think today's Church needs to get back to that. How? Take a couple drops of oil (in James' time it would have been olive oil) and touch it on the forehead with a blessing in the name of Christ Jesus.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I think today's Church needs to get back to that.

Catholics anoint with oil. It is a part of several sacraments; baptism, confirmation, ordination, marriage, last rites.

 

[Albion]

Apostle James told us to anoint with oil in the name of The Lord.
.................................................
The early Christian Church did that, and I think today's Church needs to get back to that. How? Take a couple drops of oil (in James' time it would have been olive oil) and touch it on the forehead with a blessing in the name of Christ Jesus.

Actually, there are more churches that anoint with oil than you may realize. However, its use is normally done in connection with certain ceremonies--sacraments mainly, but not exclusively.

The idea that blessed oil has some spiritual benefit if and when applied to somebody by just about anybody and for no particular occasion is more the stuff of TV preachers and "fringe" denominations.

Here is the verse you offered us. Note the part that's highlighted, which is my emphasis:

James 5:14-15
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
● Jas 5:14 . . Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church,
and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of The Lord

Religious fanatics here and there are allowing their underage children to suffer and
even die from treatable medical conditions on the basis of Jas 5:14. Christ
addressed this issue indirectly by means of his teachings at Matt 12:11-12 which say:

"What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into
a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then
is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do good on the sabbath days."

In other words: the sanctity of human life trumps the sanctity of the Sabbath. So
then, hospitals, doctors, nurses, firemen, law enforcement, soup kitchens, rescue
missions, Red Cross, disaster emergency workers, etc. who are busy on the Sabbath
do not sin. Do they break the Sabbath? Yes; but the sanctity of the seventh day is
secondary to the sanctity of human life. (cf. Luke 13:15 & Luke 14:5)

So then, I would have to say that people who deny their children adequate medical
care in the name of religion regard the value of their own flesh and blood as
something less than that of a beast.

It's okay to have elders pray for your child, and it's okay to anoint them with oil.
But after that, parents really should take their children to a doctor because
medicine today is far and away superior to the practices available to Christians back
in James' day when oil and prayer were just about the best there was.

There used to be an old saying going around in Christian circles that went
something like this: When a farmer prays for a crop, he should say amen with a
hoe. In other words, don't just sit back and wait for a miracle when it's in your
power to take some action; and if you don't, then in my opinion, you deserve to be
prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law when a child in your care dies from a
treatable condition.

● 1Tim 5:8 . . If any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own
house, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
_