On Psalm 132

[Michael]

Do you believe Jesus when He said what those who commit these sins wont inherit the kingdom of heaven? By your reckoning those sins are already covered and they get into heaven, I dont think we will ever agree on this Lamm.

Hey brother, good point. One of the things that has brought confusion into the churches today is a teaching that Jesus is a friend of sinners. Songs are sung and sermons preached about such a concept that Jesus hung out with and befriended sinners. Yet... when we study the Word alone we find it a little bit different. Jesus was accused of being a friend of sinners by the Pharisees (Matt 11:19). But Jesus said, "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you." (John 15:14)
Jesus was not friends with those who remained bound to their sin that He came to set them free from. Jesus called "friend" those who repented (turned away) from their sin. Heaven rejoices, not when someone is 'saved', but when they actually stop their sinful behavior, "there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” (Luke 15:10)

Jesus forgave our past sins, but will hold us accountable if we continue in them. "Go and sin no more" Jesus told the woman caught in adultery in John 8:11. And the man He healed at the pool He told, "“See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you.” (John 5:14)

Oh, indeed we need to heed the Word of God and walk humbly in obedience before Him. For truly the Kingdom of God that will inherit creation and minister Life and healing to the saved nations will be comprised of not a single 'sinner saved by grace' but only by those who "walked worthy" (Eph 4:1, Phil 1:27, Col 1:10, 1Thess 2:12, 2Thess 1:11, Rev 3:4) and "overcame by the Blood of the Lamb, the word of their testimony and by loving not their lives unto death." (Rev 12:11)

 

[RichWh1]

So you are taking about our salvation being a work of ourself. That what Christ did is not enough, that we have to work and earn that salvation. No sir, I disagree here. We do good because we want to do good, not because we have to do good.

Why you seem to be talking about is Holiness, that one needs to become perfect to attain salvation. I don't see that anywhere in the Bible. That is teaching that does from outside of the Bible. It is adding to what the Bible already tells us how we achieve salvation. You leave me scratching my head.

Salvation is the work of God and sinful mankind cannot accomplish this ; only God can, which is the reason Jesus had to take our place.

Paul tells us how we have been saved

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB

According to Paul’s letter, we don’t need to do good works to get saved; we do good works because we have been saved.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[psalms 91]

You didn't answer my questions. Let me ask another way. Are you trusting fully on Jesus' death and forgiveness because of the cross or are you trusting in yourself to gain entry into heaven and have eternal life with God?

I trust fully in Jesus as we are taught and I also see the commands of Jesus and tthye warnings of paul about falling away and pressing on towards the mark. There are many warnings given in the New Testament and of course the biggest one of all Revelation. Yes, we are saved by grace and we are also commanded to obey Him. It always amazes me that those who preach love and everyone is saved forget about Gods judgement and justice. You dont have one without the other at least in my bible. As I said we will never agree Lamm so this is just a rehash

 

[Lamb]

I trust fully in Jesus as we are taught and I also see the commands of Jesus and tthye warnings of paul about falling away and pressing on towards the mark. There are many warnings given in the New Testament and of course the biggest one of all Revelation. Yes, we are saved by grace and we are also commanded to obey Him. It always amazes me that those who preach love and everyone is saved forget about Gods judgement and justice. You dont have one without the other at least in my bible. As I said we will never agree Lamm so this is just a rehash

You mention God's judgment...so what is He judging but our sin? Jesus died on the cross and your sins are forgiven.

 

[Lamb]

No. Absolutely not. We have "received salvation" solely on what Christ Jesus accomplished in His life on earth 2000 years ago.

What we are talking about is what comes after being "saved." To inherit the promises of God one must "walk worthy" and "overcome."

Jesus has done His part in His perfect obedience to God. We must do our part if we are to inherit the Kingdom of God.

To accept that we will always sin is to accept defeat. Jesus did not come to bring sinners into Paradise, He came to deliver us from sin. If we are still sinning even after being "saved" then we have not been delivered from sin; we are not "putting to death the deeds of the flesh", "denying ourselves, picking up our cross daily and following Jesus" to victory. Jesus will not overcome for us; there is no Bible for that false teaching. And He will not be "worthy" for us either; we must "walk worthy" as the Apostle Paul told us at least 6 times in his letters.

All this is beyond salvation. Again, being "saved" is the beginning, not the end of our journey; an opportunity not a substitute for proving our obedience by our works.

God's wisdom and understanding to us all.

You are saying that Jesus did not forgive all your sins at the cross with this post. God isn't randomly selecting sins to forgive.

 

[Lamb]

So you are taking about our salvation being a work of ourself. That what Christ did is not enough, that we have to work and earn that salvation. No sir, I disagree here. We do good because we want to do good, not because we have to do good.

Why you seem to be talking about is Holiness, that one needs to become perfect to attain salvation. I don't see that anywhere in the Bible. That is teaching that does from outside of the Bible. It is adding to what the Bible already tells us how we achieve salvation. You leave me scratching my head.

He's definitely teaching salvation by works instead of relying purely on Jesus' efforts. Eternal life with God is always going to be because of Jesus and nothing or our own efforts.

Mankind wants to do works. He is so drawn to the Law and loves to even create new ones!

But doing works to gain anything from God is LAW and not Gospel. There needs to be a proper distinction and so many churches are mingling the two so that their members are being deceived into working for what Jesus already took care of. It's sad really. Jesus must be in tears over this.

 

[psalms 91]

You mention God's judgment...so what is He judging but our sin? Jesus died on the cross and your sins are forgiven.

Like I said we will never agree, your version is that we get saved and after that it dont matter what we do, that is wrong and unscriptural

 

[Lamb]

Like I said we will never agree, your version is that we get saved and after that it dont matter what we do, that is wrong and unscriptural

What we do because we are forgiven does not add to what Jesus already accomplished.

What we do because we are forgiven is because the Holy Spirit now lives within us and guides us so that we want to be Holy. Trying to be perfect doesn't get you eternal life with God. God sees the believer as being righteous because of Jesus' blood.

So, you are incorrect in thinking that Lutherans think it's a free for all to sin. NO WHERE has any of us ever said that!

 

[Michael]

Dear saints, let us not contend with one another about doctrine. The Scripture says to the saints, "let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching." (Heb 10:23-25) The rest of this chapter in Hebrews confirms what I believe even further, but let each of us know that our calling is not the same, the talents given us by the Master are not equal. If we are faithful to walk in and use what He has given us in this life to bear fruit for the Kingdom, then we will hear "well done, good and faithful servant" in that Day.

Personally, the Lord God has opened the "eyes of my understanding" to see the goal He has for His creation: the "royal priesthood", the promises to "those who overcome" and the inheritance of creation by those who will "sit with Christ on His Throne" ruling the nations here on earth for Eternity. If this is my calling, then I must do as Peter writes, adding to my faith "to make my calling and election sure" (2Pet 1:5-11).

My desire is to be faithful to the Lord and share as He gives opportunity. All I can do is "plant" and "water" and let "God give the increase."

May each of us "hold fast" to what we have received, "obey God rather than man", and "follow Jesus" as He leads us the Way of the Cross.

Peace & Blessings to all,
Michael

 

[Lamb]

Dear saints, let us not contend with one another about doctrine. The Scripture says to the saints, "let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching." (Heb 10:23-25) The rest of this chapter in Hebrews confirms what I believe even further, but let each of us know that our calling is not the same, the talents given us by the Master are not equal. If we are faithful to walk in and use what He has given us in this life to bear fruit for the Kingdom, then we will hear "well done, good and faithful servant" in that Day.

Personally, the Lord God has opened the "eyes of my understanding" to see the goal He has for His creation: the "royal priesthood", the promises to "those who overcome" and the inheritance of creation by those who will "sit with Christ on His Throne" ruling the nations here on earth for Eternity. If this is my calling, then I must do as Peter writes, adding to my faith "to make my calling and election sure" (2Pet 1:5-11).

My desire is to be faithful to the Lord and share as He gives opportunity. All I can do is "plant" and "water" and let "God give the increase."

May each of us "hold fast" to what we have received, "obey God rather than man", and "follow Jesus" as He leads us the Way of the Cross.

Peace & Blessings to all,
Michael

Starting off with let's not contend one another about doctrine but then you go on to continue to give your own doctrine? What does that say about you?

I'll keep preaching Christ crucified for the forgiveness of sins for eternal life and not by works or efforts of man until I die.

 

[psalms 91]

What we do because we are forgiven does not add to what Jesus already accomplished.

What we do because we are forgiven is because the Holy Spirit now lives within us and guides us so that we want to be Holy. Trying to be perfect doesn't get you eternal life with God. God sees the believer as being righteous because of Jesus' blood.

So, you are incorrect in thinking that Lutherans think it's a free for all to sin. NO WHERE has any of us ever said that!

Those who are in the spirit are free from the Law how about those that are not? Many who are in church and are saved have never made it to living inn the spirit and many christians do not live a consecrated life so what about them. You are right that noone has ever said that but it is implied when you say everything is covered before and after you are saved.

 

[Lamb]

Those who are in the spirit are free from the Law how about those that are not? Many who are in church and are saved have never made it to living inn the spirit and many christians do not live a consecrated life so what about them. You are right that noone has ever said that but it is implied when you say everything is covered before and after you are saved.

All of us sin. We do it every day. Some sins we aren't even aware we're doing. To say that Jesus hasn't forgiven those sins at the cross denies the Gospel! Didn't God demand a blood sacrifice for forgiveness? And didn't that happen at the cross?

For all of us who sin...every single day whether by act or thought...the Holy Spirit accuses us of those sins with the Law so that we repent. How long it takes Him to convince us to repent is up to Him and His timing. But please don't deny the forgiveness won at the cross for all of us who do repent.
The forgiveness we receive when we repent is the same one that was at the cross when God accepted the blood sacrifice of Jesus for those sins. Jesus doesn't die again and again for your sins.

You keep saying you need to obey to have eternal life. But you're in denial if you think you can perfectly obey what God requires. That's why you need forgiveness for your inability to obey perfectly.

You said you're afraid of God's wrath if you sin.

You're in luck though because Jesus has you covered! He died for you! Not just for some of your sins. God didn't choose random sins to forgive.

Thanks be to God that He is loving and merciful.

 

[MennoSota]

Psalm 132:1-18
Remember, O Lord, in David’s favor, all the hardships he endured, how he swore to the Lord and vowed to the Mighty One of Jacob, “I will not enter my house or get into my bed, I will not give sleep to my eyes or slumber to my eyelids, until I find a place for the Lord, a dwelling place for the Mighty One of Jacob.” Behold, we heard of it in Ephrathah; we found it in the fields of Jaar. “Let us go to his dwelling place; let us worship at his footstool!” Arise, O Lord, and go to your resting place, you and the ark of your might. Let your priests be clothed with righteousness, and let your saints shout for joy. For the sake of your servant David, do not turn away the face of your anointed one. The Lord swore to David a sure oath from which he will not turn back: “One of the sons of your body I will set on your throne. If your sons keep my covenant and my testimonies that I shall teach them, their sons also forever shall sit on your throne.” For the Lord has chosen Zion; he has desired it for his dwelling place: “This is my resting place forever; here I will dwell, for I have desired it. I will abundantly bless her provisions; I will satisfy her poor with bread. Her priests I will clothe with salvation, and her saints will shout for joy. There I will make a horn to sprout for David; I have prepared a lamp for my anointed. His enemies I will clothe with shame, but on him his crown will shine.”

 

[psalms 91]

All of us sin. We do it every day. Some sins we aren't even aware we're doing. To say that Jesus hasn't forgiven those sins at the cross denies the Gospel! Didn't God demand a blood sacrifice for forgiveness? And didn't that happen at the cross?

For all of us who sin...every single day whether by act or thought...the Holy Spirit accuses us of those sins with the Law so that we repent. How long it takes Him to convince us to repent is up to Him and His timing. But please don't deny the forgiveness won at the cross for all of us who do repent.
The forgiveness we receive when we repent is the same one that was at the cross when God accepted the blood sacrifice of Jesus for those sins. Jesus doesn't die again and again for your sins.

You keep saying you need to obey to have eternal life. But you're in denial if you think you can perfectly obey what God requires. That's why you need forgiveness for your inability to obey perfectly.

You said you're afraid of God's wrath if you sin.

You're in luck though because Jesus has you covered! He died for you! Not just for some of your sins. God didn't choose random sins to forgive.

Thanks be to God that He is loving and merciful.

This I agree with

 

[MennoSota]

Psalm 132 is a blessed, Messianic, psalm that points to the promised one who reigns as King of Kings and Lord of Lord's.
I'm entirely baffled by the conversations in this thread as they are irrelevant to the psalm.

 

[Lamb]

Psalm 132 is a blessed, Messianic, psalm that points to the promised one who reigns as King of Kings and Lord of Lord's.
I'm entirely baffled by the conversations in this thread as they are irrelevant to the psalm.

The thread isn't about just the Psalm which I agree is beautiful and God focused, it's because the OP inserted his video that had some things he proclaimed that some of us disagree with.

 

[MennoSota]

The thread isn't about just the Psalm which I agree is beautiful and God focused, it's because the OP inserted his video that had some things he proclaimed that some of us disagree with.

Alright. I don't listen to Michael's lectures. He is missing grace and following the Foursquare cult which was created by Aimee Semple-McPherson.
https://www.christianitytoday.com/history/people/denominationalfounders/aimee-semple-mcpherson.html

 

[Michael]

I'll keep preaching Christ crucified for the forgiveness of sins for eternal life and not by works or efforts of man until I die.

Amen. If you are faithful and obedient to what God has commissioned you with, you will hear "well done good and faithful servant" in that Day.

And if I am faithful and obedient to live and teach what God has commissioned me with, then I will hear "well done good and faithful servant" in that Day.

 

[Lamb]

Amen. If you are faithful and obedient to what God has commissioned you with, you will hear "well done good and faithful servant" in that Day.

And if I am faithful and obedient to live and teach what God has commissioned me with, then I will hear "well done good and faithful servant" in that Day.

"faithful" is the key in your statement. God says to me well done not due to any of my efforts or works. It's because of Jesus and what He has done. By grace through faith and because of the blood of the MAN who died on the cross for me, I am reconciled to God.

 

[Michael]

"faithful" is the key in your statement. God says to me well done not due to any of my efforts or works. It's because of Jesus and what He has done. By grace through faith and because of the blood of the MAN who died on the cross for me, I am reconciled to God.

Yes, "faithful" IS the KEY! IF we are faithful and obedient we will hear those words.
The one who was 'saved" and a 'servant' of the Lord, but did not DO what was required of him, was cast from the Lord's Presence in that Day.
But that is only what Jesus taught. Others teach differently today. I must go with what Jesus said.

"Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—
those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation."
- John 5:28-29

Seriously, If Jesus would have said... 'those who believed on Me and trusted in My forgiveness regardless of their behavior, will rise to Life' - then I could agree with the bulk of today's preaching. But He didn't. And I can't.