Muslims Are Not Atheists

[MarkFL]

On a Christian forum, I certainly can. There are things that we, as Christians, assume to be true. So since Muslims deny the God of scripture, they are atheists.

You can deny the validity of their religion if you want, just as anyone can deny the validity of yours, however you cannot legitimately deny the fact that they are theists no matter where you are. To do so demonstrates a complete ignorance of the definition of the word.

 

[psalms 91]

Yes it is. You are mistaking the extreme terrorists withe regular Muslims. They are peace loving people. Most Muslims are not committing terror crimes.

That does not change what the koran teachs

 

[Hammster]

You can deny the validity of their religion if you want, just as anyone can deny the validity of yours, however you cannot legitimately deny the fact that they are theists no matter where you are. To do so demonstrates a complete ignorance of the definition of the word.

No, and I've explained why. You cannot be a theist if the god you worship is not real.

 

[psalms 91]

No, and I've explained why. You cannot be a theist if the god you worship is not real.

Am I wrong in efining Theist as believing in one God?

 

[Ruth]

That does not change what the koran teachs

Do you know what the Koran teaches?

 

[Hammster]

Am I wrong in efining Theist as believing in one God?

A theist believes there is a God. An atheist believes there is no God. On a Christian website, that would include anyone who denies the God of scripture. A false god is no god at all, regardless of how much you believe in it.

 

[MarkFL]

No, and I've explained why. You cannot be a theist if the god you worship is not real.

Then again, using that reasoning, there would be no such thing as theists since no god can be shown to be real. It takes faith to believe in anything for which there is no compelling evidence.

 

[Hammster]

Then again, using that reasoning, there would be no such thing as theists since no god can be shown to be real. It takes faith to believe in anything for which there is no compelling evidence.

That's changing the argument. Go back an read my post about this being a Christian website.

 

[MarkFL]

Am I wrong in efining Theist as believing in one God?

A monotheist is a theist who believes in one god. This includes Christians and Muslims. Members of both religions are all theists. Only those who do not believe in any gods are atheists by definition.

 

[MarkFL]

That's changing the argument. Go back an read my post about this being a Christian website.

Just because this is a Christian website does not mean we have license to deny how words are defined. Otherwise all discourse would become meaningless.

 

[Hammster]

Just because this is a Christian website does not mean we have license to deny how words are defined. Otherwise all discourse would become meaningless.

I have not denied how words are used. There is always a context. In the context of Christianity, Muslims are atheists. Without context, all discourse would become meaningless.

 

[MarkFL]

I have not denied how words are used. There is always a context. In the context of Christianity, Muslims are atheists. Without context, all discourse would become meaningless.

You are clearly wrong. There is no context in which Muslims are atheists...none...period.

 

[Hammster]

You are clearly wrong. There is no context in which Muslims are atheists...none...period.

Okay.

 

[seekingsolace]

You are clearly wrong. There is no context in which Muslims are atheists...none...period.

There is a context for Christians. As has been expressed by members in this thread.

Mutual respect would be nice.

 

[MarkFL]

There is a context for Christians. As has been expressed by members in this thread.

Mutual respect would be nice.

I have been extremely patient in the face of willful stubbornness regarding the definition of the word "theist." There is absolutely no context in which a Muslim can legitimately be called an atheist. Let's look at the accepted definition of the word "theist:"

"Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world."

So, I ask you, how does a Muslim not fit into this category?

 

[seekingsolace]

I have been extremely patient in the face of willful stubbornness regarding the definition of the word "theist." There is absolutely no context in which a Muslim can legitimately be called an atheist. Let's look at the accepted definition of the word "theist:"

"Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world."

So, I ask you, how does a Muslim not fit into this category?

Why are you persisting in a pointless argument?

Are you going to force a definition on a believer, or accept they view it differently?

 

[MarkFL]

Why are you persisting in a pointless argument?

Are you going to force a definition on a believer, or accept they view it differently?

I care deeply about what is true and what is not. No matter who you are or what you believe, you cannot say Muslims are atheists without being completely and utterly wrong.

Definitions are definitions. There is no acceptance by me of misuse of the language. I would hate for someone who doesn't know better to read misinformation here such as "Muslims are atheists" and go away thinking it is the truth. Allowing people to state things which are not true and not call them on it (regardless of their beliefs) does no one any good.

 

[seekingsolace]

I care deeply about what is true and what is not. No matter who you are or what you believe, you cannot say Muslims are atheists without being completely and utterly wrong.

Definitions are definitions. There is no acceptance by me of misuse of the language. I would hate for someone who doesn't know better to read misinformation here such as "Muslims are atheists" and go away thinking it is the truth. Allowing people to state things which are not true and not call them on it (regardless of their beliefs) does no one any good.

To what end. Any person that wants to understand a definition, will inevitably use a dictionary. When we speak of a principle or thought, sometimes it is hard to convey without using words out of their established norms. Usage of words in a religious environment will naturally diverge from absolutes. I am sure everyone is in agreement on the definition of the word. The concept is the bone of contention.

By definition Muslims are monotheist in their belief of a God. The divergence and rationale in usage of the word is the concept: belief in a false God is equivalent to belief in no God, thus atheist. So it's a believers conclusion, rather than a debate over the definition.

I can see both sides of it, and I don't see either side adjusting their view on the matter.

 

[Lamb]

Too many people talking past each other in this thread.

I've never heard Christians call Muslims Atheists before until this thread.

Muslims believe in a false god, which is not a god, but they do BELIEVE and trust in those fallen beliefs. That goes against the very definition of what an Atheist is.

So semantics is what is the actual issue here.

 

[MarkFL]

...belief in a false God is equivalent to belief in no God, thus atheist.

No, this is simply wrong. If belief in a false god was the same as atheism, then I would label everyone who ever lived an atheist. But it's not and so I don't.

Belief in a god is what makes a person a theist, no matter what the claims by others are regarding the reality of that god. If you believe in a god or gods, you are a theist. It's as simple as that.

I started this thread in a joking manner because of the sheer ridiculousness of the claim that Muslims are atheists, and am shocked and truly disappointed to find that there is more than one here who would claim there is any validity at all for calling Muslims atheists.