Modern Worship Movement

vince284

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ValleyGal

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The trouble is when songs are chosen to elicit an emotional response, when church consists of an hour of upbeat music followed by the suggestion (if not the outright statement) that the emotional euphoria people are experiencing is a mighty move of God, when people then try to recreate this "mighty move of God", and when people start to worry that God has apparently abandoned them yet again just as Monday morning starts and they wonder what they did wrong only to spend their time chasing the elusive high rather than seeking God.

Tango, thanks for articulating very well exactly what I have been thinking about this subject, and what I've been trying to say. Worship artists eliciting an emotional response is not the same as experiencing God's presence. I can sing a worship song and mean every word of it without having a lot of emotional expression about it. Then there are times when something totally strikes me in a deep nerve, and I do have an emotional response. To this day, I can't hear "The Little Drummer Boy" without broken humility and tears in my eyes.... "I am a poor child, too... no gift to bring that's fit to give my King... Can I play my drum for you?" All I have is the abilities he's given to me, and it's so humbling to think that I can give it back to him and he will smile at me! That's very emotional experience for me, year after year. But I also mean it when I sing "How Great Thou Art!" even though it does not bring about that same intensity of emotion.
 

tango

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Tango, thanks for articulating very well exactly what I have been thinking about this subject, and what I've been trying to say. Worship artists eliciting an emotional response is not the same as experiencing God's presence. I can sing a worship song and mean every word of it without having a lot of emotional expression about it. Then there are times when something totally strikes me in a deep nerve, and I do have an emotional response. To this day, I can't hear "The Little Drummer Boy" without broken humility and tears in my eyes.... "I am a poor child, too... no gift to bring that's fit to give my King... Can I play my drum for you?" All I have is the abilities he's given to me, and it's so humbling to think that I can give it back to him and he will smile at me! That's very emotional experience for me, year after year. But I also mean it when I sing "How Great Thou Art!" even though it does not bring about that same intensity of emotion.

The intersection of worship and emotion is something it's often difficult to define and, as you say, it will vary from person to person and from time to time.

During my teenage years I went to a number of things billed as Christian rallies, that involved "a time of worship" at the beginning (by which they meant an hour or so of upbeat music, to get people into a euphoric state), followed by a speaker who talked as if that euphoria was God's presence and that now was the time to respond to it. Not knowing any better at the time I'd respond, go forward, claim the promises, or whatever else was being pushed. And of course the euphoria that was so strong on Saturday night had mostly faded by Sunday and on Monday when I got to school it was gone completely. Once you've been through that enough times you start to figure there's something wrong with you and you're messing it all up even if you don't know how. That's just one part of why I'm generally hostile to music being used to draw out and develop an emotional response.

For me personally the very same song can trigger totally different responses based on where I am. Graham Kendrick's song, "We Believe" is one I've liked for a long time. Most of the time I can sing it without any issues but every once in a while it just catches me off guard. I'm not normally a particularly emotionally expressive person so it surprises people when a song like that makes me tearful, but occasionally it just does. One time in church a particular song was being sung and I just got on my knees, feeling overwhelmed by the sense of God's presence. With my eyes closed it felt like some time had passed but when I opened my eyes again the congregation was singing the same song (and it wasn't the kind of church where they sing the same few lines over and over for half an hour!). It's very rare for me to respond like that but, as with getting tearful, sometimes it just does.
 

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There is a lot of bad music in most hymnals. Many are empty of theology and simply call for an emotional response. In that regard there is little change in modern worship. Bethel Music is a cult, yet many contemporary churches sing their songs. Just recently a lead song writer at Hillsong sadly recanted his faith in God, showing all his songs were emotional, but void of theological substance.
There are some good organizations. Sovereign Grace and Indelible Grace are dedicated to writing theologically rich music. My church sings many of their songs in conjunction with theologically rich hymns. We have no complaints about our music since the focus is on rich theology in music that matches with the pastor's message as he preaches expositionaly through the Bible. I very much like my church.
 

tango

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There is a lot of bad music in most hymnals. Many are empty of theology and simply call for an emotional response. In that regard there is little change in modern worship. Bethel Music is a cult, yet many contemporary churches sing their songs. Just recently a lead song writer at Hillsong sadly recanted his faith in God, showing all his songs were emotional, but void of theological substance.
There are some good organizations. Sovereign Grace and Indelible Grace are dedicated to writing theologically rich music. My church sings many of their songs in conjunction with theologically rich hymns. We have no complaints about our music since the focus is on rich theology in music that matches with the pastor's message as he preaches expositionaly through the Bible. I very much like my church.

I'm not sure a song writer recanting his faith proves anything about the songs he was writing, even if I wouldn't dispute that much of Hillsong's music is feel-good music that usually contains little if any useful theology.

Anything to do with Bethel is worth avoiding, in my opinion. Their theology is a blend of passable and toxic and much of their music reflects this.
 

Josiah

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I'm not OPPOSED to worship songs that are primarily emotional..... It CAN be appropriate to respond to biblcial Truth with praise or remorse or comfort or hope or joy or zeal that we FEEL because of the Truth.

Were I get frustrated and where I get concerned is...

1. When the "because of the truth" is deleted, as if how I FEEL is what matters.

2. When the song is self-centered rather than Christ-centered.

3. When songs are just "fluff" and all the songs are just fluff (BTW, this is JUST as true with SOME old songs as with some new ones). Some are just MIND NUMBING in their repetition (I find myself thinking ENOUGH!!!)

4. The above article speaks of "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs. They DO exist! And they are spooky.

5. When, like so many "pop" songs, all that matters is the toe-tapping tune (perhaps at a deafening volume) but the words are meaningless or even incomprehensible. JESUS is the reason, not toe tapping.


Luther (who invited PEOPLE sing hymns.... songs in the language of the people.... and wrote a lot of hymns himself) said that our singing hymns is OUR preaching! It's the laity, the worshiper's sermon. Sermons should have content. Sermons should be biblical. Sermons should express Law and Gospel. Sermons should lift up JESUS and not self.

Another thing that "bugs" me a bit (and this is also true in older as well as newer songs): There's too much ME. Too many songs go on and on about ME, I. Me thing, I this. Again, I'm not opposed to how SELF feels/thinks in response to Law and Gospel - it can be appropriate - but we need to remember it's not all Jesus and ME, the uber-individualism of the Roman Empire (made worse by the Enlightenment) has infected too much of Christianity like a cancer. Let's not turn our backs on the Church, the Family, our Brothers and Sisters in Christ around the world and singing with us in Heaven. Too many songs are too focused on one person: ME. And it makes weird worship songs that WE sing TOGETHER. Example: "In the Garden." A nearly worthless song, void of any reason for how this mysterious individual FEELS, and it's all ME (so weird to sing TOGETHER that it seldom is, it's usually a solo). Sorry, not everything is about self. The world does not revolve around self.



Just my $0.01


- Josiah




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vince284

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I guess I never really thought about it that hard. I have been to churches that didn’t allow music or musical instruments in their building, to churches with hundreds in the choir and an 80 piece orchestra. I’ve been to huge churches where I can hear a pin drop and others where it seems like they are having a battle of praise bands. To each their own, I know what I am comfortable with and if they want to worship by doing a few summersaults or listening to a chanter, to each their own.

If baby Christians are more comfortable with milk until God allows them to grow, then it’s good with me. If seasoned Christians only depend on meat to live without feelings or emotions, that’s up to them, it’s not for me to say. I can’t see into people’s heart.

What I personally like is a combo of worship music with golden oldies but I really don’t like to worship to “Contemporary Music”, I can listen to it as the special song on a Sunday morning, as long as it’s not to “spooky”. I grew up in a “traditional” (to me) church, an organist, a pianist, burgundy choir robes with collars that were reversible for special occasions. The first time I saw drums and a guitar I was young, and it surprised me… not to mention the first time I saw someone raise their hands in worship or prayer and even hear an “Amen” shouted out.

I was at a church that was a nice mix of worship music, and then we had to get a new pastor. The new pastor was young (right out of seminary) and had grown up in the church, his youth group friends quickly became the “leadership”. They liked all that contemporary music they played in the youth group. Their band became the church’s praise band and the worship became a stage presentation with smoke and flashing lights. They would “tune-up” as people were arriving for worship, like some secular concert. Needless to say, if 80% of the church liked it, I wasn’t going to fight it, I left (not the only reason… I have more than I can count on two hands).
 

tango

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3. When songs are just "fluff" and all the songs are just fluff (BTW, this is JUST as true with SOME old songs as with some new ones). Some are just MIND NUMBING in their repetition (I find myself thinking ENOUGH!!!)

You'd love what passes for worship at IHOP. From what I've seen of their "worship" it consists of little more than singing the same line or two over and over for anything up to 15 minutes at a time, then shifting to another line or two, and so on. If you think I'm exaggerating on the time, after the first several repetitions I wondered how long it would last, so timed it.
 

ValleyGal

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:SMH:

This is what I think the original article means by the "emotional" part of worship that does not belong in corporate worship. There is nothing wrong with having some emotional connection with lyrics or an emotional response, but to attribute that kind of response to the Holy Spirit is, imo, misattribution. Rather, I think it is the "groupthink" of the worship session, and it is the leader who brings them into this kind of mindless, trance-like state. It makes me sad, really.
 
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