Martin Luther on the state of the dead.

[hobie]

I am looking at Martin Luther as I have come across what history shows, and it seems he was bringing together the passages from scripture and declare what it attests. He was coming to a understanding on the state of the dead, and striving to show what he found in Gods word and refute what was coming into the church. Here is some of what I have come across:

In 1516 Pietro Pomponatius, of Mantua, noted Italian professor and leader among the Averrorists, issued a book in opposition to Roman Catholic position called Treatise on the Immortality of the Soul. This was widely read, especially in the Italian universities. As a result, he was haled before the Inquisition, and his book publicly burned in Venice.
Then, on October 31, 1517, Luther posted his famous Theses on the church door in Wittenberg. In his 1520 published Defence of 41 of his propositions, Luther cited the pope's immortality declaration, as among "those monstrous opinions to be found in the Roman dunghill of decretals" (proposition 27). In the twenty-seventh proposition of his Defence Luther said:

However, I permit the Pope to establish articles of faith for himself and for his own faithful—such are: That the bread and wine are transubstantiated in the sacrament; that the essence of God neither generates nor is generated; that the soul is the substantial form of the human body that he [the pope] is emperor of the world and king of heaven, and earthly god; that the soul is immortal; and all these endless monstrosities in the Roman dunghill of decretals—in order that such as his faith is, such may be his gospel, such also his faithful, and such his church, and that the lips may have suitable lettuce and the lid may be worthy of the dish.—Martin Luther, Assertio Omnium Articulorum M. Lutheri per Bullam Leonis X. Novissimam Damnatorum (Assertion of all the articles of M. Luther condemned by the latest Bull of Leo X), article 27, Weimar edition of Luther's Works, vol. 7, pp. 131, 132 (a point-by-point exposition of his position, written Dec. 1, 1520, in response to requests for a fuller treatment than that given in his Adversus execrabilem Antichristi Bullam, and Wider die Bulle des Endchrists).

Archdeacon Francis Blackburne states in his Short Historical View of the Controversy Concerning an Intermediate State, of 1765:

Luther espoused the doctrine of the sleep of the soul, upon a Scripture foundation, and then he made use of it as a confutation of purgatory and saint worship, and continued in that belief to the last moment of his life.—Page 14.

In support, Blackburne has an extended Appendix section dealing with Luther's teaching as set forth in his writings, and discusses the charges and countercharges.*

Here follow Luther and Tyndale in some detail.

Sixteenth Century

MARTIN LUTHER (1493-1546), German Reformer and Bible translator

'The immediate cause of Luther's stand on the sleep of the soul was the issue of purgatory, with its postulate of the conscious torment of anguished souls. While Luther is not always consistent, the predominant note running all through his writings is that souls sleep in peace, without consciousness or pain. The Christian dead are not aware of anything—see not, feel not, understand not, and are not conscious of passing events. Luther held and periodically stated that in the sleep of death, as in normal physical sleep, there is complete unconsciousness and unawareness of the condition of death or the passage of time.† Death is a deep, sound, sweet sleep.‡ And the dead will remain asleep

WILLIAM TYNDALE (1484-1536), English Bible translator and martyr

In Britain William Tyndale, translator of the Bible into English, came to the defense of the revived..

*In his Master of Arts thesis (1946), "A Study of Martin Luther's Teaching Concerning the State of the Dead," T. N. Ketola, tabulating Luther's references to death as a sleep—as found in Luther's Sammtliche Schriften, Walsh's Concordia, 1904 ed.—lists 125 specific Luther references to death as a sleep. Ketola cites another smaller group of references showing Luther believed in the periodic consciousness of some. But the main point is that, while the dead live, they are unconscious—which is stated some seven times.

teaching of conditional immortality. This, as well as other teachings, brought him into direct conflict with the papal champion, Sir Thomas More, likewise of England. In 1529 More had strongly objected to the "pestilential sect" represented by Tyndale and Luther, because they held that "all souls lie and sleep till doomsday." In 1530 Tyndale responded vigorously, declaring:

And ye, in putting them [the departed souls] in heaven, hell, and purgatory, destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul prove the resurrection.... And again, if the souls be in heaven, tell me why they be not in as good case as the angels be? And then what cause is there of the resurrection?—William Tyndale, An Answer to Sir Thomas More's Dialogue (Parker's 1850 reprint), bk. 4, ch. 4, pp. 180, 181.

Tyndale went to the heart of the issue in pointing out the papacy's draft upon the teachings of "heathen philosophers" in seeking to establish its contention of innate immortality.
Thus:

The true faith putteth [setteth forth] the resurrection, which we be warned to look for every hour. The heathen philosophers, denying that, did put [set forth] that the souls did ever live. And the pope joineth the spiritual doctrine of Christ and the fleshly doctrine of philosophers together; things so contrary that they cannot agree, no more than the Spirit and the flesh do in a Christian man. And because the fleshly-minded pope consenteth unto heathen doctrine, therefore he corrupteth the Scripture to stablish it.—lbid., p. 180.

In yet another section of the same treatise, dealing with the "invocation of saints," Tyndale uses the same reasoning, pointing out that the doctrine of departed saints being in heaven had not yet been introduced in Christ's day:

And when he [More] proveth that the saints be in heaven in glory with Christ already, saying, "If God be their God, they be in heaven, for he is not the God of the dead;" there he stealeth away Christ's argument, wherewith he proveth the resurrection: that Abraham and all saints should rise again, and not that their souls were in heaven; which doctrine was not yet in the world. And with that doctrine he taketh away the resurrection quite, and maketh Christ's argument of none effect.—Ibid., p. 118.

Tyndale presses his contention still further by showing the conflict of papal teaching with St. Paul, as he says in slightly sarcastic vein:

"Nay, Paul, thou art unlearned; go to Master More, and learn a new way. We be not most miserable, though we rise not again; for our souls go to heaven as soon as we be dead, and are there in as great joy as Christ that is risen again." And I marvel that Paul had not comforted the Thessalonians with that doctrine, if he had wist [known] it, that the souls of their dead had been in joy; as he did with the resurrection, that their dead should rise again. If the souls be in heaven, in as great glory as the angels, after your doctrine, shew me what cause should be of the resurrection)—Ibid...http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/luther-tyndale.htm

 

[Josiah]

Laughably absurd. http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2006/04/luthers-understanding-of-soul-sleep.html

But I appreciate you regarding Luther to be correct about things! So leave the SDA and join a Lutheran church!

 

[Lamb]

Martin Luther's beliefs changed over the period of his life so when people claim Luther believed in something we have to ask, in what period of his life did he believe in that and what is the context of what he said?

 

[Josiah]

Martin Luther's beliefs changed over the period of his life so when people claim Luther believed in something we have to ask, in what period of his life did he believe in that and what is the context of what he said?

I like that the SDA hold that Luther is their authority .... I just wonder why they are still SDA's?

A bit of research (I have a link to one) shows that Luther spoke only briefly and VERY vaguely ... and the SDA (holding Luther to be an infallible authority) is somehow teaching what they do is just silly. But yes, Luther never developed this and NO doctrine EVER came of it. It seems obvious to me he's just trying to APPLY the Scripture that speaks of the dead as "asleep" and is correct in noting this means they will awaken (sleep not being permanent). That's it. That's all.


This whole issue is really quite simple. The soul is not physical. Thus it as no time (time ONLY applies to the physical and material). Time doesn't apply to the soul awaiting the resurrection of the flesh (yet another reason to reject the common understanding of Purgatory). But TIME will resume at the resurrection when the flesh is somehow restored.

 

[hobie]

Martin Luther's beliefs changed over the period of his life so when people claim Luther believed in something we have to ask, in what period of his life did he believe in that and what is the context of what he said?

I think that is the issue, but he clearly was against the idea of a immortal soul. Here I found something..."On November 29, 1520, Luther published a defense of the forty-one propositions that had been condemned by the bull Exsurge Domini, of June 15. This he titled Assertion of All the Articles Wrongly Condemned in the Roman Bull, thus publicly justifying his Theses. On the twenty-seventh item he states the general principle: "It is certain that it is not in the power of the church or the Pope to establish articles of faith, or laws for morals or good works." And he immediately gives as the reason that all true articles of faith are already established in the Word of God.

1. "IMMORTAL SOUL" INCLUDED AMONG POPE'S "MONSTROUS OPINIONS."—With ironical permission Luther grants to the pope the right and power to make special "articles of faith" for himself and his own followers. He lists five in the series, including the "immortality of the soul" as the fifth, all and each of which Luther expressly rejects. The significance of including "the soul is immortal ["animam esse immortalem"]" in what he denominates "monstrous opinions" and "Roman corruptions," is, of course, obvious. And he added immediately that these "all" came out of the "Roman dunghill of decretals"4—thus harking back to the pope's bull of December 19, 1513, wherein he declared the natural immortality of the soul to be a doctrine of the Catholic Church.5 Here are Luther's exact words:

"But I permit the Pope to make articles of faith for himself and his faithful, such as The Bread and wine are transubstantiated in the sacrament. [2] The essence of God neither generates, nor is generated. [3] The soul is the substantial form of the human body. [4] The Pope is the emperor of the world, and the king of heaven, and God upon earth. [5] THE SOUL IS IMMORTAL, with all those monstrous opinions to be found in the Roman dunghill of decretals, that such as his faith is, such may be his gospel, such his disciples, and such his church, that the mouth may have meat suitable for it, and the dish, a cover worthy of it."6 ...https://www.truthaccordingtoscriptu.../froom/luther-conditionalism.php#.Xdf3_cJYa1s

 

[Albion]

I like that the SDA hold that Luther is their authority .... I just wonder why they are still SDA's?

A bit of research (I have a link to one) shows that Luther spoke only briefly and VERY vaguely ... and the SDA (holding Luther to be an infallible authority) is somehow teaching what they do is just silly. But yes, Luther never developed this and NO doctrine EVER came of it. It seems obvious to me he's just trying to APPLY the Scripture that speaks of the dead as "asleep" and is correct in noting this means they will awaken (sleep not being permanent). That's it. That's all.

...and it may be appropriate to say also that LutherANS do not necessarily believe everything Luther contemplated at one point or another during his life. Yet talking as though they do seems to be a favorite device of opponents.

 

[Josiah]

...and it may be appropriate to say also that LutherANS do not necessarily believe everything Luther contemplated at one point or another during his life. Yet talking as though they do seems to be a favorite device of opponents.

Obviously....

EVEN IF Luther at some point suggested something that the SDA's think sounds a bit like this heresy they teach, that means NOTHING vis-a-vis Lutherans. Luther said a LOT of things (a WHOLE lot) and if ripped from the context can seem pretty bad. But the definition of Lutheran teachings is not Luther, it's the Lutheran Confessions (most of which Luther had nothing to do with). Lutherans view Luther the same as he did - a sinner, just a bloat that put his pants on one leg at a time, and is an authority on NOTHING (except perhaps beer). So it's curious (and a bit funny) to see NON-LUTHERANS (even Catholics and cultists) quoting him as if Luther is an infallible, authoritative, prophet (a God on Earth). We kind of laugh at that. And wonder why they aren't Lutherans if they think Luther was right.

 

[hobie]

Here is another study on Martin Luther's view on the state of the dead...."A careful analysis of Martin Luther’s writings reveals more than 300 instances where he rebuts the medieval view of the soul, substituting in its place an undeniable "soul sleep" (psychopannychism). Indeed, all the essentials of the psychopannychistic view of man are found in Luther's writings; most of them stated repeatedly: the separate existence of the soul, its unconscious sleep in death, its exclusion from Christ's presence until the resurrection, and the ultimate reunification of body and soul at the last day as the true way to immortality and eternal life.

In his lectures on Ecclesiastes (1526), Luther asserted that the dead are "completely asleep" and do not "feel anything at all . . . they lie there not counting days or years; but when they are raised it will seem to them that they have only slept a moment."1 Commenting on Ecclesiastes 9:5, Luther said that he knew of no more powerful passage in Scripture showing that the dead are asleep and unconscious:


For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, KJV)

Verse 10 was another text proving "that the dead do not feel anything," since they are "completely asleep":2


Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest (Ecclesiastes 9:10, KJV).

In Luther's commentary on 1 Corinthians 15, Luther argued that before Christ's resurrection, death was "true and eternal death," but now "It has become merely a sleep."


"For what was a true and eternal death prior to this and without Christ is now, since Christ has passed from death to life and has arisen, no longer death; now it has become merely a sleep. And so the Christians who lie in the ground are no longer called dead, but sleepers, people who will surely also arise again. For when we say that people are asleep, we refer to those who are lying down but will wake up and rise again, not those who are lying down bereft of all hope of rising again. Of the latter we do not say that they are sleeping but that they are inanimate corpses. Therefore by that very word ‘asleep’ Scripture indicates the future resurrection."3

Speaking of a Christian who has died in faith, Luther wrote "it is but a night before He [Christ] rouses us from sleep."4 The faithful who die, Luther said, "died in such a manner that after they had been called away from the troubles and hardships of this life, they entered their chamber, slept there, and rested in peace."5"....http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/179.htm

 

[Lamb]

Here is another study on Martin Luther's view on the state of the dead...."A careful analysis of Martin Luther’s writings reveals more than 300 instances where he rebuts the medieval view of the soul, substituting in its place an undeniable "soul sleep" (psychopannychism). Indeed, all the essentials of the psychopannychistic view of man are found in Luther's writings; most of them stated repeatedly: the separate existence of the soul, its unconscious sleep in death, its exclusion from Christ's presence until the resurrection, and the ultimate reunification of body and soul at the last day as the true way to immortality and eternal life.

In his lectures on Ecclesiastes (1526), Luther asserted that the dead are "completely asleep" and do not "feel anything at all . . . they lie there not counting days or years; but when they are raised it will seem to them that they have only slept a moment."1 Commenting on Ecclesiastes 9:5, Luther said that he knew of no more powerful passage in Scripture showing that the dead are asleep and unconscious:


For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, KJV)

Verse 10 was another text proving "that the dead do not feel anything," since they are "completely asleep":2


Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest (Ecclesiastes 9:10, KJV).

In Luther's commentary on 1 Corinthians 15, Luther argued that before Christ's resurrection, death was "true and eternal death," but now "It has become merely a sleep."


"For what was a true and eternal death prior to this and without Christ is now, since Christ has passed from death to life and has arisen, no longer death; now it has become merely a sleep. And so the Christians who lie in the ground are no longer called dead, but sleepers, people who will surely also arise again. For when we say that people are asleep, we refer to those who are lying down but will wake up and rise again, not those who are lying down bereft of all hope of rising again. Of the latter we do not say that they are sleeping but that they are inanimate corpses. Therefore by that very word ‘asleep’ Scripture indicates the future resurrection."3

Speaking of a Christian who has died in faith, Luther wrote "it is but a night before He [Christ] rouses us from sleep."4 The faithful who die, Luther said, "died in such a manner that after they had been called away from the troubles and hardships of this life, they entered their chamber, slept there, and rested in peace."5"....http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/179.htm

Maybe you should read the entirety of Luther's commentary because this quote is in there, "Now if I know this and believe it, my heart or conscience and soul have already passed through death and grave and are in heaven with Christ, dwell there and rejoice over it."

 

[hobie]

Maybe you should read the entirety of Luther's commentary because this quote is in there, "Now if I know this and believe it, my heart or conscience and soul have already passed through death and grave and are in heaven with Christ, dwell there and rejoice over it."

As you say "Martin Luther's beliefs changed" as he was trying to understand what scripture said, but he clearly saw how the doctrine of the immortal soul the RCC has allowed in was incorrect and brought errors into the church.