MARK 6:3 DID JESUS HAVE BROTHERS AND SISTERS ?

[Doug]

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Jesus had siblings, brothers and sisters. Mary had other children. Jesus had siblings, conceived by Mary and Joseph.

Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

Brother in the Bible means brother.

Galatians 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

Paul clearly speaks of James as being the Lord's brother.

1 Corinthians 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

Paul speaks of being able to to have a sister as a wife; not a sibling sister, but rather a believer. This differentiation is derived strictly from an unbiased and natural common sense consideration of the text and context. By utilizing the same common sense, it can be also determined that the brethren of the Lord are siblings rather than believers.

1 Corinthians 1:1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

Here Paul is speaking of Sosthenes as being a brother in the sense of being a fellow believer.

Mark 3:31 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.

3:32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.

3:33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren

3:34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

In this scriptural passage, is one last example of the ready distinction between family and fellow believers. If viewed honestly, it is apparant that in Mark 3:31-32 Jesus's brethren and mother is his family; in Mark 3:34-35 Jesus is speaking of those who believe.

 

[JRT]

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Yes, and I am convinced the Roman Catholic suggestion that they were Joseph's children by a previous marriage is very questionable. Extra-Biblical sources indicate that the names of his sisters were Miriam and Salome.

 

[Arsenios]

Of course He had brothers and sisters...

None by Blood...

All older than Him...


Arsenios

 

[Andrew]

Of course He had brothers and sisters...

None by Blood...

All older than Him...


Arsenios

:/

 

[hedrick]

yes, I read the passage with its normal meaning.

 

[Josiah]

"Brother" and "sister" were very general terms in koine Greek, especially among Jews and Christians. It does not necessarily mean "sharing the same mother." Theo terms not only could mean a step-sibling or cousin or any relative or any living under the same roof, it could simply mean one with whom there is a deep relationship. We are brothers in Christ.

And there was no term in koine Greek for "half - sibling" or "step - sibling." They were simply called "brother" or "sister." There was a term for "cousin" but the term "brother" doesn't necessarily exclude that.

Tradition says that the named brothers were children of Joseph from a previous marriage. No, there is NOTHING in the Bible that so indicates (it comes from the Protoevangelium of James, etc.) but the term for "brother" would be the necessary term since there was no word for "half-brother."

COULD these be also children of Mary? Yes. Absolutely! MUST they be? No. Not at all. It's not proof - one way or the other.

 

[hedrick]

"Brother" and "sister" were very general terms in koine Greek, especially among Jews and Christians. It does not necessarily mean "sharing the same mother." Theo terms not only could mean a step-sibling or cousin or any relative or any living under the same roof, it could simply mean one with whom there is a deep relationship. We are brothers in Christ.

I haven't found evidence for this in sources I've checked, with two exceptions: occasional use for half-brother or step brother, and metaphorical use. Metaphorical use is very unlikely here. Half-brother isn't impossible, but it's not a very high probability, and there's no other sign of it.

As far as I can tell, arguments about this are based on traditions from at least a century later, influenced by the odd early Christian attitudes towards sex.

I don't see any reason to doubt the normal reading of brothers and sisters.

 

[Doug]

I haven't found evidence for this in sources I've checked, with two exceptions: occasional use for half-brother or step brother, and metaphorical use. Metaphorical use is very unlikely here. Half-brother isn't impossible, but it's not a very high probability, and there's no other sign of it.

As far as I can tell, arguments about this are based on traditions from at least a century later, influenced by the odd early Christian attitudes towards sex.

I don't see any reason to doubt the normal reading of brothers and sisters.

Hello
Sometimes it might be better to go with the natural reading of the Bible.

 

[Arsenios]

Hello
Sometimes it might be better to go with the natural reading of the Bible.

We have a family in our Church who had 4 children, and adopted two more from Guatemala...

Those six are all brothers and sisters...

I agree, a natural reading is indicated...

And the Christ Child had to be concealed...

Amazing how nobody seems to get that...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Yes, Jesus had brothers and sister's. Mary was a sexually active woman with Joseph, her husband.

 

[Andrew]

.

 

[Arsenios]

Yes, Jesus had brothers and sister's. Mary was a sexually active woman with Joseph, her husband.

A VERY carnal take indeed - eg

The Blessed Virgin is a sexually active woman...

OR...

How Christianity lost America...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

A VERY carnal take indeed - eg

The Blessed Virgin is a sexually active woman...

OR...

How Christianity lost America...


Arsenios

There is nothing carnal about God glorifying sex in the God ordained union of marriage.
Mary and Joseph glorified God with their sexual activity. Sex is an act of worship in the role of marriage between one man and one woman. It's sad if you think it's carnal instead of God glorifying.

 

[Josiah]

There is NOTHING in Scripture that teaches that Mary did or did not have physical relationships with Joseph after Jesus was born. NOTHING. One way or the other.

BUT the tradition that she had no other children is ancient, and the tradition that she did remain a virgin is also ancient. Both actually more ancient and more universal than the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[Andrew]

There is NOTHING in Scripture that teaches that Mary did or did not have physical relationships with Joseph after Jesus was born. NOTHING. One way or the other.

BUT the tradition that she had no other children is ancient, and the tradition that she did remain a virgin is also ancient. Both actually more ancient and more universal than the doctrine of the Trinity.

Jesus had siblings, they weren't virgin births... and who cares if she did? did that make her a sinner? was the message that we should stop having kids?

 

[Josiah]

There is NOTHING in Scripture that teaches that Mary did or did not have physical relationships with Joseph after Jesus was born. NOTHING. One way or the other.

BUT the tradition that she had no other children is ancient, and the tradition that she did remain a virgin is also ancient. Both actually more ancient and more universal than the doctrine of the Trinity.


.

Jesus had siblings, they weren't virgin births... and who cares if she did? did that make her a sinner? was the message that we should stop having kids?

I agree that the PVM seems largely irrelevant. And I agree that it is not taught in Scripture.

I also note that it is a very ancient and ecumenical view that is not contrary to Scripture.


In MY personal opinion, it's neither dogma nor heresy. Not something we MUST believe but something we CAN believe. But that's just my conclusion.


I have not given my view on this (I usually avoid doing that), but frankly, I don't have one. Either way. To be blunt (and I sincerely, fully, passionately do NOT mean to be AT ALL disrespectful to Our Lady or St. Joseph or ANYONE alive or dead), I fail to see that it's any of my business. So I don't make it my business. I don't take a stand. WHATEVER may or may not have happened in their bedroom, stays in their bedroom in my personal opinion (and AGAIN, please understand, please appreciate, NO disrespect or impiety meant or implied to anyone at all).



Blessings



- Josiah



.

 

[Andrew]

I agree that the PVM seems largely irrelevant. And I agree that it is not taught in Scripture.

I also note that it is a very ancient and ecumenical view that is not contrary to Scripture.


In MY personal opinion, it's neither dogma nor heresy. Not something we MUST believe but something we CAN believe. But that's just my conclusion.


I have not given my view on this (I usually avoid doing that), but frankly, I don't have one. Either way. To be blunt (and I sincerely, fully, passionately do NOT mean to be AT ALL disrespectful to Our Lady or St. Joseph or ANYONE alive or dead), I fail to see that it's any of my business. So I don't make it my business. I don't take a stand. WHATEVER may or may not have happened in their bedroom, stays in their bedroom in my personal opinion (and AGAIN, please understand, please appreciate, NO disrespect or impiety meant or implied to anyone at all).



Blessings



- Josiah



.

I concur

 

[Arsenios]

I agree that the PVM seems largely irrelevant.
And I agree that it is not taught in Scripture.
I also note that it is a very ancient and ecumenical view that is not contrary to Scripture.
In MY personal opinion, it's neither dogma nor heresy.
Not something we MUST believe but something we CAN believe.
To be blunt ... I fail to see that it's any of my business.
So I don't make it my business.

Were I an outsider I would concur...
From a worldly point of view, you are utterly reasonable in your approach...

Yet the doctrine in the Church
That Christ established through His Apostles
holds the Ancient Faith that
She not only was a virgin,
for every girl born is born a virgin,
But that it is her virginity
that brought Christ into flesh...
That Christ could not have been born of her
had she not been a consecrated virgin...
And this consecration came from within her...
She is the Mother of all generations in Christ...
For She is the Mother of Christ-God...

The text of the Annunciation implies but does not specify that she was self consecrated as a very young girl...
She was not a normal youthful Jewish lass dreaming of a husband and children...
She was not betrothed to the man of her dreams looking forward to a large family with Joseph...
As the Betrothed to Joseph, she rebuked the Angel...
"How can I possibly be having this Child of which you speak?
How can I have any child at all?
Because I am NOT knowing ANY man?"

And UNLIKE, say, Zacharias, the Angel did NOT give Her a Sign...
To PROVE to her the foolishness of her rebuke...
Instead he spoke these Holy Words:
"The Holy Spirit will come upon you..."

And She said: "Then let it be unto me according to thy word..."

This is the "I DO" to the Marriage of the Lamb...

Rev 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:
for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;
and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:2
And I John saw the Holy City,
the New Jerusalem,
coming down from God out of heaven,
prepared as a bride
adorned for her husband.

She is the Mother of our Lord and God Jesus Christ...

She is no temporary surrogate birth-mom...

Who went back to birthing brats...

After she got Jesus out of the way of her otherwise perfectly normal marriage...

Consummating THAT marriage to Joseph would have been ADULTERY to God...

And Scripture is fairly clear that She would have said NO had it meant marital relations with a man...

Who the Blessed Virgin IS matters to Her Children...

It IS your business IF you are IN Christ HER Son...


Arsenios