LCMS, Demons and Mental Illness

Hope1960

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
80
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Back in Biblical times those afflicted by mental illness were probably described as having demons. People were ignorant of the symptoms of mental illness. Since the Lutheran LCMS views The Bible are free from error, how can this be?
 
Last edited:

pinacled

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Messages
2,171
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Non-Denominational
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Back in Biblical times those afflicted by mental illness were probably described as having demons. People were ignorant of the symptoms of mental illness. Since the Lutheran LCMS views The Bible as free from error, how can this be?
Cite scripture that confirms your claim.
"Mental illness=demon possession"

Are you trolling?
 

Hope1960

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
80
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Cite scripture that confirms your claim.
"Mental illness=demon possession"

Are you trolling?
No, I certainly am not trolling. And I’m not saying mental illness equals demon possession. I’m saying that those afflicted by mental illness were probably often described as having demons. Are you trolling?
 

pinacled

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Messages
2,171
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Non-Denominational
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
No, I certainly am not trolling. And I’m not saying mental illness equals demon possession. I’m saying that those afflicted by mental illness were probably often described as having demons. Are you trolling?
Where in scripture is mental ilness=to demon possession.?
 

Hope1960

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
80
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Where in scripture is mental ilness=to demon possession.?
It doesn’t say it in Scripture per se’ but obviously in some cases they were mentally ill. And I read something about it in a Biblical commentary years ago, in one of my old (probably Catholic) Bibles.
 

pinacled

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Messages
2,171
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Non-Denominational
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
It doesn’t say it in Scripture per se’ but obviously in some cases they were mentally ill. And I read something about it in a Biblical commentary years ago, in one of my old (probably Catholic) Bibles.
Please inform the readers here of the definitions you've read¿
 

Hope1960

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
80
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

pinacled

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Messages
2,171
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Non-Denominational
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single

Hope1960

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
80
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
What denomination are you serving at the momment?
Lutheran LCMS. And my question was directed to either those from the LCMS or, at the very least, well familiar with the LCMS.
 

Lucian Hodoboc

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
405
Location
Eastern Europe
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Eastern Orthodox
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Back in Biblical times those afflicted by mental illness were probably described as having demons. People were ignorant of the symptoms of mental illness. Since the Lutheran LCMS views The Bible are free from error, how can this be?
I asked the same question on Reddit and got made fun of and downvoted for believing that mental illnesses have a spiritual cause that current medical science is oblivious of.

*shrugs*

I, for one, know that the mental problems I suffer from are the result of sins, but I haven't found many people to believe me so far.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
10,439
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Lutheran LCMS. And my question was directed to either those from the LCMS or, at the very least, well familiar with the LCMS.


I believe that those who are described as being "demon-possessed" or similar were, um, "demon-possessed" or similiar.

Exactly what that means is, well, not stated. But I don't think there's an error involved.

Just THEORIZING (and that's about as close to worthless as can be), perhaps IN THOSE CASES, that "demon-possession" meant they were mentally ill. Does that mean every case of mental illness is a result of a specific demon possession? Nope, not at all. BUT it COULD BE (seems at least theoretically POSSIBLE) that in THOSE cases, it was.



Lucian Hodoboc said:
I, for one, know that the mental problems I suffer from are the result of sins,


I agree. EVERYTHING bad is a consequence of our fallenness, our sinfulness, our brokenness. Now, this isn't necessarily some "this-for-that" relationship, I think most often, it's simply a general result of a universal situation. It may not be a direct consequence of some specific SIN in/from me.... but a consequence of sin nonetheless. And, connecting to this thread, that includes sickness (mental and physical).... were Adam and Eve sick before the Fall? Are those in heaven sick? Probably not.


Blessings on your Lenten observation....



- Josiah (former Catholic, current LCMS Lutheran)



.
 

Hope1960

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
80
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I believe that those who are described as being "demon-possessed" or similar were, um, "demon-possessed" or similiar.

Exactly what that means is, well, not stated. But I don't think there's an error involved.

Just THEORIZING (and that's about as close to worthless as can be), perhaps IN THOSE CASES, that "demon-possession" meant they were mentally ill. Does that mean every case of mental illness is a result of a specific demon possession? Nope, not at all. BUT it COULD BE (seems at least theoretically POSSIBLE) that in THOSE cases, it was.






I agree. EVERYTHING bad is a consequence of our fallenness, our sinfulness, our brokenness. Now, this isn't necessarily some "this-for-that" relationship, I think most often, it's simply a general result of a universal situation. It may not be a direct consequence of some specific SIN in/from me.... but a consequence of sin nonetheless. And, connecting to this thread, that includes sickness (mental and physical).... were Adam and Eve sick before the Fall? Are those in heaven sick? Probably not.


Blessings on your Lenten observation....



- Josiah (former Catholic, current LCMS Lutheran)



.
If they were mentally ill, then doesn’t that mean the Bible is in error.? I don’t think that in all cases people were mentally ill, but for those who were, but called demon possessed, I would think the Bible errs on that. No?,
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
10,439
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
If they were mentally ill, then doesn’t that mean the Bible is in error.?


No.

IF (and that's just a guess) .... IF they were mentally ill and the Bible said they were NOT mentally ill, then the Bible would be wrong. But I don't think that's the case.

Now, I offered a (pretty much worthless) OPINION that they may have been BOTH demon-possession and mentally ill, I find nothing that would preclude that situation (although nothing to support it, either). But even if the personal opinion that they were mentally ill suggests nothing whatsoever that ERGO the Bible is wrong to report them as demon-possessed.




I don’t think that in all cases people were mentally ill, but for those who were, but called demon possessed, I would think the Bible errs on that. No?,

No.

First of all, you didn't prove they were mentally ill. I don't challenge that POSSIBILITY but we don't know that was the case in each of the Bible's "possession" accounts. And I find no reason to hold that if one is mentally ill ERGO they cannot be demon-possessed. Or vise versa.



Blessings on your Lenten observance.



- Josiah




.
 

CastleChurch

Active member
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
26
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
If they were mentally ill, then doesn’t that mean the Bible is in error.? I don’t think that in all cases people were mentally ill, but for those who were, but called demon possessed, I would think the Bible errs on that. No?,
The Bible speaks of people that had certain conditions and that those conditions were caused by demons. It does not necessarily meant that those conditions could not also be caused by other mental or physical issues. So, those people may have had demons, but that does not mean that everyone that has a similar condition has a demon, or the opposite of course.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
10,584
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I remember reading an article some time ago that I believe was written by a Christian psychiatrist. The gist of what he put forward was that if someone is mentally ill their symptoms will respond to regular medicine and may or may not be helped by prayer and exorcism. If they are possessed or oppressed by demons their symptoms will not respond to medication but will respond to prayer and exorcism.

It seems like a reasonable conclusion to me, for what that's worth.
 

pinacled

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Messages
2,171
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Non-Denominational
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
If they were mentally ill, then doesn’t that mean the Bible is in error.? I don’t think that in all cases people were mentally ill, but for those who were, but called demon possessed, I would think the Bible errs on that. No?,
Where in the bible are you claiming an errancy is involved?

Where are the mentally Ill called demon possessed in scripture?

And why specifically ask for a Lutheran Missouri synod?
 

Hope1960

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
80
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Where in the bible are you claiming an errancy is involved?

Where are the mentally Ill called demon possessed in scripture?

And why specifically ask for a Lutheran Missouri synod?
Because I am LCMS.

Are you shooting for some record for asking the most questions of any other poster? Why not contribute to the thread instead of trying to derail it with endless questions.
 
Last edited:

pinacled

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Messages
2,171
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Non-Denominational
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Because I am LCMS.

Are you shooting for some record for asking the most questions of any other poster? Why not contribute to the thread instead of trying to derail it with endless questions.
I've never heard a lutheran call demon possession a mental illness.

Perhaps explain to the readers here how you came by this teaching.
And how by coincidence the lmcs is being attacked by social media.
 

Hope1960

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
80
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Top Bottom