Lämmchen's Blog Thread
- Thread starter Lamb
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 32,648
- Age
- 57
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Here is a blog that I posted in 2007 that I'd like to post here:
Even pennies can add up
Current mood: Grumpy
I posted on a group today in response to someone who said that there weren't many churches in his area who said only one church out of many was going out and evangelizing and no one was giving to the poor. His posting reminded me of the woman who gave her mites:
Mark 12:41-44 41 And he sat down over against the treasury, and beheld how the multitude cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. 42 And there came a poor widow, and she cast in two mites, which make a farthing. 43 And he called unto him his disciples, and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, This poor widow cast in more than all they that are casting into the treasury: 44 for they all did cast in of their superfluity; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
The Lutheran Women's Missionary League based their mites program upon those verses in scripture. Women are handed small boxes in which they fill their mites...they put their extra change in there and if they find money in pockets while doing laundry, it goes in there, if they find money on a walk, it goes in there.
What happens is that the mites of one box gets added to the mites of other boxes, and then added to even more. Pennies, quarters, dimes and nickels can certainly add up. To how much? Well, according the LWML webpage, national mites add up to over $1 million dollars for mission grants. That is amazing!
http://www.lwml.org/mission-grants
This isn't something that is a Lutheran thing either as I read on the history page of the LWML website that mite collecting was started by a Baptist church. Kudos to the Baptists!
We don't always know how others are working for the Lord or doing the work He laid out for them to do. We can't assume they're sitting around doing nothing...they could be a part of something so small yet so great, as in the mite collection.
One hand doesn't always have to know what the other hand is doing. And neither does one Christian need to know what another Christian is doing.
Even pennies can add up
Current mood: Grumpy
I posted on a group today in response to someone who said that there weren't many churches in his area who said only one church out of many was going out and evangelizing and no one was giving to the poor. His posting reminded me of the woman who gave her mites:
Mark 12:41-44 41 And he sat down over against the treasury, and beheld how the multitude cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. 42 And there came a poor widow, and she cast in two mites, which make a farthing. 43 And he called unto him his disciples, and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, This poor widow cast in more than all they that are casting into the treasury: 44 for they all did cast in of their superfluity; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
The Lutheran Women's Missionary League based their mites program upon those verses in scripture. Women are handed small boxes in which they fill their mites...they put their extra change in there and if they find money in pockets while doing laundry, it goes in there, if they find money on a walk, it goes in there.
What happens is that the mites of one box gets added to the mites of other boxes, and then added to even more. Pennies, quarters, dimes and nickels can certainly add up. To how much? Well, according the LWML webpage, national mites add up to over $1 million dollars for mission grants. That is amazing!
http://www.lwml.org/mission-grants
This isn't something that is a Lutheran thing either as I read on the history page of the LWML website that mite collecting was started by a Baptist church. Kudos to the Baptists!
We don't always know how others are working for the Lord or doing the work He laid out for them to do. We can't assume they're sitting around doing nothing...they could be a part of something so small yet so great, as in the mite collection.
One hand doesn't always have to know what the other hand is doing. And neither does one Christian need to know what another Christian is doing.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 32,648
- Age
- 57
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Posted on another site on 03/22/2007 (with a change to the number of years I've been on the internet)
Good Works
Current mood: Daring
I've been on the internet for over 20 years now and have been on numerous message boards and forums. Some Christian, some secular. Both have their issues and we all act human on these boards, showing our best and worst whether we're Christian or not.
On the Christian boards, there are some people who tell others that our good works are needed. Does GOD need our good works? Nope. But I know who does...our neighbors.
What motivates these good works? Well, proper motivation for a Christian is NOT the Law as some churches teach! Those churches try to be ever so law-driven to get their congregations to bear fruit and do good works, that they forget something so important.
The cross.
Knowing the Law is wonderful as it is good and Holy and shows us what God wants us to do...but it also shows us that we fail. We cannot live up to the Law's expectations no matter how hard we try. Scriptures tell us if we fail in one part of the law, we've failed all of it. The Law kills. Thankfully, we have a Savior who WAS ABLE to completely fulfill the Law in our stead and die on the cross that should have been our death.
We are redeemed, justified, FORGIVEN!
It is because of the Gospel message that we WANT to do good works! We no longer have to do them to earn salvation (which it never could) or any rewards from God! The good works I do are the ones God set aside for me to do!! And this because I'm free, freed by Christ Jesus who died for me.
The Law and Gospel should be preached properly. If Law and Gospel are properly preached, then there is no confusion, no guilt, just freedom in knowing that God is handling it for us and we are His sheep! He's working within us...so relax. Be a good neighbor and do something, not for any reward, not for a pat on the back, and not to give you the "high" that helping can sometimes give...do good works because we are forgiven and our neighbors are in need of our good works.
Good Works
Current mood: Daring
I've been on the internet for over 20 years now and have been on numerous message boards and forums. Some Christian, some secular. Both have their issues and we all act human on these boards, showing our best and worst whether we're Christian or not.
On the Christian boards, there are some people who tell others that our good works are needed. Does GOD need our good works? Nope. But I know who does...our neighbors.
What motivates these good works? Well, proper motivation for a Christian is NOT the Law as some churches teach! Those churches try to be ever so law-driven to get their congregations to bear fruit and do good works, that they forget something so important.
The cross.
Knowing the Law is wonderful as it is good and Holy and shows us what God wants us to do...but it also shows us that we fail. We cannot live up to the Law's expectations no matter how hard we try. Scriptures tell us if we fail in one part of the law, we've failed all of it. The Law kills. Thankfully, we have a Savior who WAS ABLE to completely fulfill the Law in our stead and die on the cross that should have been our death.
We are redeemed, justified, FORGIVEN!
It is because of the Gospel message that we WANT to do good works! We no longer have to do them to earn salvation (which it never could) or any rewards from God! The good works I do are the ones God set aside for me to do!! And this because I'm free, freed by Christ Jesus who died for me.
The Law and Gospel should be preached properly. If Law and Gospel are properly preached, then there is no confusion, no guilt, just freedom in knowing that God is handling it for us and we are His sheep! He's working within us...so relax. Be a good neighbor and do something, not for any reward, not for a pat on the back, and not to give you the "high" that helping can sometimes give...do good works because we are forgiven and our neighbors are in need of our good works.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 32,648
- Age
- 57
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Posted On: 03/26/2007
The Gospel...what do people think it is???
Current mood: Happy
We talk about the Gospel a lot on Christian forums and message boards. I've come to the conclusion that we don't all speak of the Gospel in the same way.
From what I have read, some people state that the Gospel is where you accept Jesus as your Savior. Some state that it is surrendering yourself to God. Some state that it is preaching about us obeying God. And others include other various things for "us" to do instead of God.
All of those things...those are not the Gospel. Not one of those things states what God has done for us for our salvation. Not one of those things speaks of the cross, redemption, justification, etc....
As a Lutheran, we are told from practically birth about Law and Gospel. In Sunday School and Catechism class (also known as Confirmation Class), we learn how to properly distinguish between Law and Gospel.
The Law besides being a curb, guide and mirror, is what we do or don't do. The Gospel is what God does for our salvation! Skipping the message of the cross and forgiveness really isn't much Gospel. Our pastors have learned to give the Law in their sermons in all its severity and above all to preach the Gospel in all its sweetness.
So, what exactly is the Gospel? And what are some churches totally missing out on if they're avoiding sharing it with the congregation every Sunday??? Well, one of my very favorite books of the Bible is the book of Romans. Paul, in his letter to the Romans hadn't met the people to whom he was writing and in a way, we can look at it as him catechizing (the word means teaching) them about Law/Gospel! If anyone ever wants to know about Law and Gospel, go to the book of Romans and you'll be totally WOW'd!
Romans 5 is an awesome example of what the Gospel is: Romans 5 Peace with God Through Faith 1Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice[d] in hope of the glory of God. 3More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
6For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will scarcely die for a righteous person--though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die-- 8but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ 12Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-- 13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17If, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18Therefore, as one trespass[e] led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness[f] leads to justification and life for all men. 19For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. 20Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
There in that chapter of Romans we have justification by grace through faith in Christ Jesus who died on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins! We have been justified by His blood (reference to his death on the cross).
It is the Gospel such as that found in Romans 5 that "effects" faith in us and strengthens faith we may already have! It is because of the Gospel and knowing that we are freed by the cross that we want to go good works! It is because of the Gospel, the purity of the Gospel that we want to do what is right toward our neighbor and love. It's not because we have to. It's not because we're told to do so. The Gospel doesn't tell us what we need to do or don't do. The Gospel tells us what God does for US to save us so that we may have eternal life.
The Gospel...what do people think it is???
Current mood: Happy
We talk about the Gospel a lot on Christian forums and message boards. I've come to the conclusion that we don't all speak of the Gospel in the same way.
From what I have read, some people state that the Gospel is where you accept Jesus as your Savior. Some state that it is surrendering yourself to God. Some state that it is preaching about us obeying God. And others include other various things for "us" to do instead of God.
All of those things...those are not the Gospel. Not one of those things states what God has done for us for our salvation. Not one of those things speaks of the cross, redemption, justification, etc....
As a Lutheran, we are told from practically birth about Law and Gospel. In Sunday School and Catechism class (also known as Confirmation Class), we learn how to properly distinguish between Law and Gospel.
The Law besides being a curb, guide and mirror, is what we do or don't do. The Gospel is what God does for our salvation! Skipping the message of the cross and forgiveness really isn't much Gospel. Our pastors have learned to give the Law in their sermons in all its severity and above all to preach the Gospel in all its sweetness.
So, what exactly is the Gospel? And what are some churches totally missing out on if they're avoiding sharing it with the congregation every Sunday??? Well, one of my very favorite books of the Bible is the book of Romans. Paul, in his letter to the Romans hadn't met the people to whom he was writing and in a way, we can look at it as him catechizing (the word means teaching) them about Law/Gospel! If anyone ever wants to know about Law and Gospel, go to the book of Romans and you'll be totally WOW'd!
Romans 5 is an awesome example of what the Gospel is: Romans 5 Peace with God Through Faith 1Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we
6For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will scarcely die for a righteous person--though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die-- 8but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ 12Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-- 13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17If, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18Therefore, as one trespass[e] led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness[f] leads to justification and life for all men. 19For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. 20Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
There in that chapter of Romans we have justification by grace through faith in Christ Jesus who died on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins! We have been justified by His blood (reference to his death on the cross).
It is the Gospel such as that found in Romans 5 that "effects" faith in us and strengthens faith we may already have! It is because of the Gospel and knowing that we are freed by the cross that we want to go good works! It is because of the Gospel, the purity of the Gospel that we want to do what is right toward our neighbor and love. It's not because we have to. It's not because we're told to do so. The Gospel doesn't tell us what we need to do or don't do. The Gospel tells us what God does for US to save us so that we may have eternal life.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 19,192
- Location
- Western Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Catholic
- Political Affiliation
- Moderate
- Marital Status
- Single
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
The gospel is not about what one does, believes, thinks, says, or teaches. The gospel is about what God did in the incarnation, life, suffering, death, and resurrection and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ. The other things that I mentioned are related to the gifts of God that he gives because of what the Lord Jesus Christ did.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 32,648
- Age
- 57
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Posted On: 03/28/2007
Prayer to the Saints?
Current mood: Daring
Somewhere else I have been reading a thread in regards of prayers to the Saints who have passed. There are a few groups out there who say it's ok to do because they don't view prayer as worship. But I do view prayer as worship and there is no indication whatsoever that prayers to those who have passed on can actually be heard. One thing that hit me, and it partially came from a friend's posting is...God is a jealous God. If we are to pray without ceasing, then where does that leave room to pray to anyone else???
Prayer to the Saints?
Current mood: Daring
Somewhere else I have been reading a thread in regards of prayers to the Saints who have passed. There are a few groups out there who say it's ok to do because they don't view prayer as worship. But I do view prayer as worship and there is no indication whatsoever that prayers to those who have passed on can actually be heard. One thing that hit me, and it partially came from a friend's posting is...God is a jealous God. If we are to pray without ceasing, then where does that leave room to pray to anyone else???
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 19,192
- Location
- Western Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Catholic
- Political Affiliation
- Moderate
- Marital Status
- Single
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Prayer is making requests. "Pray for me to the Lord our God" is a prayer.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 32,648
- Age
- 57
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Posted On: 03/30/2007
What is the Gospel?
Current mood: Cool
I saw that my friend Quilt Angel asked this on her blog...the last time I checked there were no answers.
I found a great article online that answers that very question!! [Link removed because it is outdated and I cannot find the new link to the article, sorry]
Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith (Romans 1:16-17).
From these passages we learn that at the heart of the Gospel is the message that Jesus, the Christ, died on the cross for our sins and that he rose from the dead. "Christ died for our sins" means that He took our sins upon Himself and served the sentence of punishment that we deserved. Every last drop of eternal judgment and punishment that we deserved was poured out on Jesus instead of us. He was the perfect and ultimate sacrifice for sins. Because of His blood shed in death for us, no judgment, guilt, or punishment remains. We are fully forgiven, innocent, not guilty. What makes this such sweet good news is that God offers all this by grace (in other words, as a gift). That is why Paul calls it the Gospel "about the grace of God" (Acts 20:24; cf. Gal. 1:6). Every time the Gospel is proclaimed God freely offers the completed forgiveness and salvation that Jesus won for us by His substitutionary death. Everyone who believes this Gospel and applies it to himself, has forgiveness, salvation, and eternal life.
And here is another snippet:
The fact is, we need the Gospel just as much for Christian living as we do for salvation. Why? First, because as mentioned above, the Gospel easily slips through our fingers, and without our knowing it, we begin to depend on our performance. Second, the Gospel is God's pipeline of grace. The Gospel is not just information telling us how to be saved -- is "the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes" (Romans 1:16; see also 1 Thessalonians 1:5; 2 Timothy 1:10). Through the Gospel, the Holy Spirit takes what Christ did 2000 years ago, and brings it into the present. Through the Gospel, the Spirit works to create and sustain and grow our faith. According to Scripture, God calls people to salvation through the Gospel (2 Thessalonians 2:14). According to Scripture, the Gospel itself bears fruit and causes growth (Colossians 1:6; see also Acts 20:32; 1 Peter 1:23).
What is the Gospel?
Current mood: Cool
I saw that my friend Quilt Angel asked this on her blog...the last time I checked there were no answers.
I found a great article online that answers that very question!! [Link removed because it is outdated and I cannot find the new link to the article, sorry]
Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith (Romans 1:16-17).
From these passages we learn that at the heart of the Gospel is the message that Jesus, the Christ, died on the cross for our sins and that he rose from the dead. "Christ died for our sins" means that He took our sins upon Himself and served the sentence of punishment that we deserved. Every last drop of eternal judgment and punishment that we deserved was poured out on Jesus instead of us. He was the perfect and ultimate sacrifice for sins. Because of His blood shed in death for us, no judgment, guilt, or punishment remains. We are fully forgiven, innocent, not guilty. What makes this such sweet good news is that God offers all this by grace (in other words, as a gift). That is why Paul calls it the Gospel "about the grace of God" (Acts 20:24; cf. Gal. 1:6). Every time the Gospel is proclaimed God freely offers the completed forgiveness and salvation that Jesus won for us by His substitutionary death. Everyone who believes this Gospel and applies it to himself, has forgiveness, salvation, and eternal life.
And here is another snippet:
The fact is, we need the Gospel just as much for Christian living as we do for salvation. Why? First, because as mentioned above, the Gospel easily slips through our fingers, and without our knowing it, we begin to depend on our performance. Second, the Gospel is God's pipeline of grace. The Gospel is not just information telling us how to be saved -- is "the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes" (Romans 1:16; see also 1 Thessalonians 1:5; 2 Timothy 1:10). Through the Gospel, the Holy Spirit takes what Christ did 2000 years ago, and brings it into the present. Through the Gospel, the Spirit works to create and sustain and grow our faith. According to Scripture, God calls people to salvation through the Gospel (2 Thessalonians 2:14). According to Scripture, the Gospel itself bears fruit and causes growth (Colossians 1:6; see also Acts 20:32; 1 Peter 1:23).
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 32,648
- Age
- 57
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Posted On: 04/03/2007
1 John 2:2
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Propitiation means: the mercy seat, atonement, reconciliation, satisfying the just wrath of God the Father.
It's very easy for people to say that forgiveness was won at the cross, but then not believe it. It's very easy for people to not believe that when Jesus said "It is finished" that He meant it.
Jesus died on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins. Everyone's sins. All sins; past, present and future. Just because we're all forgiven, it doesn't mean that everyone is saved. Surely we are born sinful at birth, sinful from the time we were conceived...hence, all are in need of a Savior. Thankfully one was provided for us.
God is at work at saving us 100%. He worked by giving the promise of a Savior at the fall in the garden, He worked by constantly pulling His people back to Him in the Old Testament, He worked by coming to earth in the form of the man Jesus, lived a perfectly obedient life that we could not live, and died on the cross in our substitute. He was resurrected and we celebrate that resurrection trusting that we too will be resurrected as the death that should have been ours will not be given to us...we will have eternal life.
God also works by the Holy Spirit to give us Law to accuse us of our sin and make us realize our need for a Savior. He works at turning us to Him. He works by having the Gospel be alive and powerful to give the gift of faith to people so that they will believe.
Yet, not all will believe. Some reject that faith and they damn themselves. It's not God's fault. It's man's fault. God saves us but it's man who damns himself.
We were forgiven at the cross. It's such a hard thing for some to say and believe. Some people try to say that forgiveness doesn't happen until someone does _____. Fill in the blank with all the things I've heard such as make a decision for Jesus, surrender ourselves, repent, ask for forgiveness. It's true that if we do ask for forgiveness we will be forgiven. It's true that when God gifts us with the gift of repentance that He will also give us the Gospel that forgives. But our forgiveness doesn't rely on anything WE have to do. It was already won at the cross...before my birth.
God is ready to give us the benefits of the cross. He's not a stingy God, that's for sure. He's merciful, kind, loving, compassionate....
When we ask for God's forgiveness, we are forgiven. But for the forgiveness to be true, it has to have a starting point...it originates at the cross. Forgiveness was there, won for us at the cross. We were all forgiven there. It's a tough concept to grasp for a lot of people. They are right in saying that if we ask for forgiveness we'll be forgiven, but have a hard time remembering that forgiveness was won for us all at the cross and that we are forgiven. It's not like God is waiting around for us first to ask as if he's charging us something for the forgiveness that was already won. It's not like God did His part and now we have to do our part before we're forgiven.
God does it all for us. He forgives us at the cross. He uses His Word to give us the Gospel message so that we are given with the gift of faith in order to believe. We receive the benefits of the forgiveness and are saved when He accomplishes these things within us. We are forgiven at the cross, this is most certainly true, but not all will be saved. Faith has to grasp onto something and it doesn't wait for us to do something first before it will be given to us, faith grasps onto the truth that we were forgiven at the cross.
1 John 2:2
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Propitiation means: the mercy seat, atonement, reconciliation, satisfying the just wrath of God the Father.
It's very easy for people to say that forgiveness was won at the cross, but then not believe it. It's very easy for people to not believe that when Jesus said "It is finished" that He meant it.
Jesus died on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins. Everyone's sins. All sins; past, present and future. Just because we're all forgiven, it doesn't mean that everyone is saved. Surely we are born sinful at birth, sinful from the time we were conceived...hence, all are in need of a Savior. Thankfully one was provided for us.
God is at work at saving us 100%. He worked by giving the promise of a Savior at the fall in the garden, He worked by constantly pulling His people back to Him in the Old Testament, He worked by coming to earth in the form of the man Jesus, lived a perfectly obedient life that we could not live, and died on the cross in our substitute. He was resurrected and we celebrate that resurrection trusting that we too will be resurrected as the death that should have been ours will not be given to us...we will have eternal life.
God also works by the Holy Spirit to give us Law to accuse us of our sin and make us realize our need for a Savior. He works at turning us to Him. He works by having the Gospel be alive and powerful to give the gift of faith to people so that they will believe.
Yet, not all will believe. Some reject that faith and they damn themselves. It's not God's fault. It's man's fault. God saves us but it's man who damns himself.
We were forgiven at the cross. It's such a hard thing for some to say and believe. Some people try to say that forgiveness doesn't happen until someone does _____. Fill in the blank with all the things I've heard such as make a decision for Jesus, surrender ourselves, repent, ask for forgiveness. It's true that if we do ask for forgiveness we will be forgiven. It's true that when God gifts us with the gift of repentance that He will also give us the Gospel that forgives. But our forgiveness doesn't rely on anything WE have to do. It was already won at the cross...before my birth.
God is ready to give us the benefits of the cross. He's not a stingy God, that's for sure. He's merciful, kind, loving, compassionate....
When we ask for God's forgiveness, we are forgiven. But for the forgiveness to be true, it has to have a starting point...it originates at the cross. Forgiveness was there, won for us at the cross. We were all forgiven there. It's a tough concept to grasp for a lot of people. They are right in saying that if we ask for forgiveness we'll be forgiven, but have a hard time remembering that forgiveness was won for us all at the cross and that we are forgiven. It's not like God is waiting around for us first to ask as if he's charging us something for the forgiveness that was already won. It's not like God did His part and now we have to do our part before we're forgiven.
God does it all for us. He forgives us at the cross. He uses His Word to give us the Gospel message so that we are given with the gift of faith in order to believe. We receive the benefits of the forgiveness and are saved when He accomplishes these things within us. We are forgiven at the cross, this is most certainly true, but not all will be saved. Faith has to grasp onto something and it doesn't wait for us to do something first before it will be given to us, faith grasps onto the truth that we were forgiven at the cross.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 32,648
- Age
- 57
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Posted On: 04/10/2007
Why is it?
Current mood: Cool
Why is it on some Christian boards that you don't find other Christians to be encouraging? Instead you find them questioning whether or not you're a true Christian (and they point at you instead of focusing on Christ crucified). If you don't believe how they believe then maybe you're not a real Christian. If you aren't doing the types of things they're doing out in the world, then maybe you aren't a real Christian.
They even show you videos and music questioning whether you're a real Christian.
Where does all this come from?
Why are there so few sites (with the exception of some of the Lutheran and a few others) that encourage the Christian by speaking about Christ crucified for the forgiveness of our sins? Why can't we have more sites that focus on the cross, the death and resurrection?
Why is it?
Current mood: Cool
Why is it on some Christian boards that you don't find other Christians to be encouraging? Instead you find them questioning whether or not you're a true Christian (and they point at you instead of focusing on Christ crucified). If you don't believe how they believe then maybe you're not a real Christian. If you aren't doing the types of things they're doing out in the world, then maybe you aren't a real Christian.
They even show you videos and music questioning whether you're a real Christian.
Where does all this come from?
Why are there so few sites (with the exception of some of the Lutheran and a few others) that encourage the Christian by speaking about Christ crucified for the forgiveness of our sins? Why can't we have more sites that focus on the cross, the death and resurrection?
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 32,648
- Age
- 57
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Posted On: 04/12/2007
They weren't saved in the first place.
Current mood: Grumpy
Ok the statement "They weren't saved in the first place" just totally makes me say, HUH?
When I see or hear statements like that I wonder what proof is used to back up that claim. Who can see the heart but God? We go by confession of faith...if they say they trust in Christ crucified, we say, OK, but if they say they reject Christ and the forgiveness of sins won at the cross, we can see that the rejection is what is damning.
Christians can fall from faith. Scriptures tells us we can. It warns us even to watch so it doesn't happen to us.
So, today I was reading about a guy who realized he wasn't really saved at one time. What made him come to that conclusion? Was he denying the work of the cross for his sins? That wasn't even brought up in the discussion. He spoke of how he was sinning and wasn't giving his heart fully to God. Not completely surrendering. Um. Does he really think that doing THAT is what gets him to heaven? Is he negating the work of the cross or adding to the Gospel message?
These types of things really make me see how many different beliefs Christians have. Some enjoy focusing on themselves and what they think they need to do. I'm not saying they aren't Christian because that's the work of God to bring them to faith by his grace.
I guess, I'll just stick with the cross and Him crucified for the forgiveness of my sins. I'll keep sharing that message and I pray others will find comfort there as well. Comfort is not found in what we do or don't do...comfort is found at the cross and the empty tomb.
They weren't saved in the first place.
Current mood: Grumpy
Ok the statement "They weren't saved in the first place" just totally makes me say, HUH?
When I see or hear statements like that I wonder what proof is used to back up that claim. Who can see the heart but God? We go by confession of faith...if they say they trust in Christ crucified, we say, OK, but if they say they reject Christ and the forgiveness of sins won at the cross, we can see that the rejection is what is damning.
Christians can fall from faith. Scriptures tells us we can. It warns us even to watch so it doesn't happen to us.
So, today I was reading about a guy who realized he wasn't really saved at one time. What made him come to that conclusion? Was he denying the work of the cross for his sins? That wasn't even brought up in the discussion. He spoke of how he was sinning and wasn't giving his heart fully to God. Not completely surrendering. Um. Does he really think that doing THAT is what gets him to heaven? Is he negating the work of the cross or adding to the Gospel message?
These types of things really make me see how many different beliefs Christians have. Some enjoy focusing on themselves and what they think they need to do. I'm not saying they aren't Christian because that's the work of God to bring them to faith by his grace.
I guess, I'll just stick with the cross and Him crucified for the forgiveness of my sins. I'll keep sharing that message and I pray others will find comfort there as well. Comfort is not found in what we do or don't do...comfort is found at the cross and the empty tomb.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 19,192
- Location
- Western Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Catholic
- Political Affiliation
- Moderate
- Marital Status
- Single
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
To say of somebody who departs the faith "they were never really Christians" or that "they were not saved in the first place" is an example of a kind of arrogance that some theologies can engender.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2015
- Messages
- 15,282
- Age
- 75
- Location
- Pa
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Charismatic
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
Yeah I can think ofmone denom that uses that logic
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 19,192
- Location
- Western Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Catholic
- Political Affiliation
- Moderate
- Marital Status
- Single
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Which one?
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 32,648
- Age
- 57
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Yep, a lot of Baptists promote that point of view because they don't see faith as coming from God but rely on their decision theology to come to salvation. If he didn't want it bad enough he was never saved. That has nothing to do with faith because God gives us faith so that we may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 19,192
- Location
- Western Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Catholic
- Political Affiliation
- Moderate
- Marital Status
- Single
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
I think that the reasoning is different from what you've described.
If one believes One saved always saved the the only viable explanation for a person leaving the acceptable range of faiths is that the person is not and never was saved because if a person leaves and was saved then OSAS is wrong.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2015
- Messages
- 15,282
- Age
- 75
- Location
- Pa
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Charismatic
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
Which of course it is
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 32,648
- Age
- 57
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Yes, that is another reason and they don't believe that man can fall from faith which goes against what scripture states.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 32,648
- Age
- 57
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Posted On: 04/14/2007
Compassion
Current mood: Amazed
One thing I've noticed, no matter what discussion board or group I'm on, I see that amongst the arguing, name calling, and down right knock down drag outs, if someone writes a prayer request, immediately people will stop to show compassion and pray. It's one thing that you don't even have to force people to do or make them feel guilty about doing. Most Christians I've met, no matter how tiny the prayer, will want what's best for our brothers and sisters in Christ.
It's a sign of love toward our neighbor and good fruit.
Compassion
Current mood: Amazed
One thing I've noticed, no matter what discussion board or group I'm on, I see that amongst the arguing, name calling, and down right knock down drag outs, if someone writes a prayer request, immediately people will stop to show compassion and pray. It's one thing that you don't even have to force people to do or make them feel guilty about doing. Most Christians I've met, no matter how tiny the prayer, will want what's best for our brothers and sisters in Christ.
It's a sign of love toward our neighbor and good fruit.