The saint of God would never do those things you imagine for the Spirit would convict him of sin and counsel him to repent.
Do you imagine the adopted child of God lives in his/her worldly flesh outside of Christ? Have you not yet considered what it means to be "in Christ?" How is it that you have thoroughly missed the discussion whereby it is noted that God adopts, reconciles, justifies and sanctifies his children? How did you miss reading Hebrews 12? How did you miss it and now attempt to stir up a false scenario?
In all honesty Menno, you lack the ability to arbitrate and cease your motive of inflaming your brethren when they assume the same stance as you when it comes to IN CHRIST works.
The way you present your arguments sounds more like a support of anti-works instead encourages good works as the Apostles stretched to the point that they died for!
When you say 'works of any kind are filthy rags' you disregard the works of a saved individual who act on Gods will, you twist this as 'their will for salvation' that is entirely not the case!!
You are missing the ENTIRE message of scripture when you tell us that our works are 'unnecessary'... And as I stated many many times before that NO ONE HERE has EVER claimed that WORKS alone saves!
I can agree with you in saying that works alone cannot save! But you rarely state that works is evidents of Justification.
And when someone agrees with you, you still pick on them because they dont have YOUR mindset, forgive me but you are not the intermediator between man and scripture.
James never ever said that we are justified by works alone and not by faith, he said the opposite so why are you so defensive about it since no one even believes that?
Let the Catholic have faith and proceed in his traditions! They are not surrender to statues of unknown gods, they are representations of the heavenly mass conjoined with the earthly mass (because they are there and all around us watching us) thats why they use statues. Its tradition not Dogma.
Name one member here that says because they chyme a bell and light a candle a mass that they have no Faith in Jesus Christ and believe that these traditions earn them merit into heaven.
Everyone believes that Justification comes from God, and that without God there is no justification!
We are under GRACE and not law. If someone stones a child for talking back to their mother in hopes of salvation than I applaud you 100 percent! But this is NOT the case! You are meddling with us here at CH and It often leaves me to wonder if you even have the Holy Spirit at all the way you belittle the congregation with your radical boastful pridefulness and bias theory.
Read TITUS once more.
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour; To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Titus 1:1-16
But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded. In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you. Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things. For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
Titus 2:1-15
Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. When I shall send Artemas unto thee, or Tychicus, be diligent to come unto me to Nicopolis: for I have determined there to winter. Bring Zenas the lawyer and Apollos on their journey diligently, that nothing be wanting unto them. And let our's also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful. All that are with me salute thee. Greet them that love us in the faith. Grace be with you all. Amen.
Titus 3:1-15
