JOSIAH

[Josiah]

I don’t have the Book of Concord, just Luther’s Small Catechism with Explanation. I don’t see anything about the age of the earth.

Bingo.

And in the LCMS, no one is asked to agree with the EXPLANATIONS to the Catechism, just the Catechism itself.



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[Joshua1Eight]

Don’t you think that those who believe in an old earth have plenty of reasons for believing that, too?

Yes, of course they have reasons. But the scientific evidence points toward a young Earth and a young universe.

 

[Faith]

Yes, of course they have reasons. But the scientific evidence points toward a young Earth and a young universe.

Back up that claim……and then debunk the traditional beliefs.

 

[Lamb]

Yes, but I never had a Lutheran confirmation. Was I supposed to?

Are you a member of that Lutheran church you attend?

 

[Faith]

Are you a member of that Lutheran church you attend?

Yes. That was the point of my attending The Rooted Experience.

 

[Lamb]

Yes. That was the point of my attending The Rooted Experience.

Usually Lutheran churches will require a person to go through some type of learning of catechism and then a public proclamation of faith before the congregation in order to become an adult member. Did you do that? If so, then that's an adult confirmation. Confirmation is simply an affirmation of faith before the congregation.

 

[Josiah]

I don’t have the Book of Concord, just Luther’s Small Catechism with Explanation. I don’t see anything about the age of the earth.

Bingo.


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[Faith]

Usually Lutheran churches will require a person to go through some type of learning of catechism and then a public proclamation of faith before the congregation in order to become an adult member. Did you do that? If so, then that's an adult confirmation. Confirmation is simply an affirmation of faith before the congregation.

No, i didn’t. But when we were introduced to the groups attending the shindig for us finishing The Rooted Experience, we might’ve said something as a group. This took place in the church.
in fact, I think we did. It took place in the church but it wasn’t the entire congregation, just those who went through TRE And some family members.

 

[Faith]

Bingo.


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Maybe it’s in there and I didn’t see it. I haven’t read the whole book.

 

[Joshua1Eight]

Back up that claim……and then debunk the traditional beliefs.

Where do I start? There’s so many proofs pointing towards a young Earth.

The Moon is slowly moving away. When scientists calculate the rate at which the Moon is moving away, they can calculate it backwards and find out how close the Moon used to be in the past.

6,000 years ago, when Adam and Eve lived, the Moon was a few inches closer. But calculate it back to 65 million years, when dinosaurs lived, the Moon would have been so close to Earth that the tides would have drowned every living thing on Earth, twice a day.

Saturn is also losing its rings. At the rate the rings are moving away, in a billion years the rings would have dissipated by now, and they would be unobservable.

The Earth is spinning. And the rate of spin is slowing down. Scientists can calculate the rate at which it’s slowing down. Scientists can also calculate it backwards and find that Earth used to be spinning faster. So the days were slightly shorter in the days of Adam and Eve. Only by a few minutes.

But calculate it backwards 65 million years, and the Earth would have been spinning so fast that the centrifugal force would have counteracted the Earth’s gravity and caused every animal on the surface to fling outwards into space.

These are only a few examples. There are many more.

 

[Faith]

Where do I start? There’s so many proofs pointing towards a young Earth.

The Moon is slowly moving away. When scientists calculate the rate at which the Moon is moving away, they can calculate it backwards and find out how close the Moon used to be in the past.

6,000 years ago, when Adam and Eve lived, the Moon was a few inches closer. But calculate it back to 65 million years, when dinosaurs lived, the Moon would have been so close to Earth that the tides would have drowned every living thing on Earth, twice a day.

Saturn is also losing its rings. At the rate the rings are moving away, in a billion years the rings would have dissipated by now, and they would be unobservable.

The Earth is spinning. And the rate of spin is slowing down. Scientists can calculate the rate at which it’s slowing down. Scientists can also calculate it backwards and find that Earth used to be spinning faster. So the days were slightly shorter in the days of Adam and Eve. Only by a few minutes.

But calculate it backwards 65 million years, and the Earth would have been spinning so fast that the centrifugal force would have counteracted the Earth’s gravity and caused every animal on the surface to fling outwards into space.

These are only a few examples. There are many more.

Can you debunk some of the more traditional beliefs? I’m familiar with some of what you mentioned but I’d like to read about why the traditional beliefs are wrong.

 

[Joshua1Eight]

Can you debunk some of the more traditional beliefs? I’m familiar with some of what you mentioned but I’d like to read about why the traditional beliefs are wrong.

Ok, name them. What traditional beliefs?
Evolution?
Big Bang?
Monkeys to man?
What?

 

[Faith]

Ok, name them. What traditional beliefs?
Evolution?
Big Bang?
Monkeys to man?
What?

All of the above.

 

[Joshua1Eight]

All of the above.

The idea that we evolved from monkeys should be pretty plain to any Bible believer. God created man to stand upright from the very beginning.

The Big Bang theory is disproven by the Conservation of Angular Momentum.

Evolution has a million and one problems that I don’t have time to go into here.

One of the main things that stands out to me is how these things contradict the Bible’s account.

The Bible has the Earth created on day 1, and stars created on day 4.
The Big Bang has stars before Earth. The Bible has Earth before stars.

The Bible has whales before land animals. Evolution says pakicetus (land animal) evolved into a whale. Thus, land animals before whales. That’s the exact opposite of the Bible.

The Bible has plants before the Sun.
Evolution has the Sun before plants.

The Bible has birds before dinosaurs.
Evolution has dinosaurs before birds (evolving into birds).

The Bible has oceans before land.
Evolution has land before oceans.

The Bible has man before death.
Evolution puts death before man.

Those are allot of ways evolution and big bang contradict the Bible. But there’s also lots of ways evolution contradicts science as well.

There’s whole entire teaching series on these topics. They go on for hours and hours showing all the problems with evolution and dating techniques.

 

[Faith]

Well, you need to compare the Lutheran Small Catechism with the Catholic Catechism. Which one do you most agree with?


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The idea that we evolved from monkeys should be pretty plain to any Bible believer. God created man to stand upright from the very beginning.

The Big Bang theory is disproven by the Conservation of Angular Momentum.

Evolution has a million and one problems that I don’t have time to go into here.

One of the main things that stands out to me is how these things contradict the Bible’s account.

The Bible has the Earth created on day 1, and stars created on day 4.
The Big Bang has stars before Earth. The Bible has Earth before stars.

The Bible has whales before land animals. Evolution says pakicetus (land animal) evolved into a whale. Thus, land animals before whales. That’s the exact opposite of the Bible.

The Bible has plants before the Sun.
Evolution has the Sun before plants.

The Bible has birds before dinosaurs.
Evolution has dinosaurs before birds (evolving into birds).

The Bible has oceans before land.
Evolution has land before oceans.

The Bible has man before death.
Evolution puts death before man.

Those are allot of ways evolution and big bang contradict the Bible. But there’s also lots of ways evolution contradicts science as well.

There’s whole entire teaching series on these topics. They go on for hours and hours showing all the problems with evolution and dating techniques.

thanks for your reply but I‘m seeking answers in the way these things all contradict science.

 

[Joshua1Eight]

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thanks for your reply but I‘m seeking answers in the way these things all contradict science.

The Conservation of Angular Momentum disproves the Big Bang.

If the Big Bang were true, then we should find everything spinning the same direction. But we don’t. We find planets spinning backwards, moons orbiting backwards, even whole entire galaxies spinning backwards.

Some planets actually have moons orbiting in both directions at the same time.

 

[Faith]

The Conservation of Angular Momentum disproves the Big Bang.

If the Big Bang were true, then we should find everything spinning the same direction. But we don’t. We find planets spinning backwards, moons orbiting backwards, even whole entire galaxies spinning backwards.

Some planets actually have moons orbiting in both directions at the same time.

Got anything else?

 

[Faith]

Friend,

Convention resolutions are NOT doctrine.
I don't think the LCMS is requiring anything from you.
I gave some reasons for why I think the majority of delegates voted as they did (ignorance is not a reason).

If you want to know the doctrine of the LCMS, the best and first place to go is Luther's Small Catechism. When you were Confirmed and when you joined your congregation, you were asked if you agree with IT, not every resolution of every convention of the LCMS and its districts. And if you want to compare with the RCC, then compare the Lutheran and Catholic Catechisms because in BOTH churches, that's what you are asked to agree with (and yes, the fact that the RCC one is much bigger is telling).

Blessings...

Josiah



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BUT, we’re these men educated in just religion, science or both? That’s all I’m asking.

 

[Josiah]

BUT, we’re these men educated in just religion, science or both? That’s all I’m asking.

Half of the delegates are ordained pastors. They might have their undergraduate degrees in just about anything. The other half are lay persons, most of whom probably are college grads but the only qualification is that they are over 18 and a Confirmed member in good standing at an LCMS congregation. So, I can't answer your question.

I have a Ph.D. in physics.... but that had little to no impact on my vote. I simply felt it best to not take a science position. But the decision did not cause me any concern; it's a convention position - nothing more.



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[Faith]

Half of the delegates are ordained pastors. They might have their undergraduate degrees in just about anything. The other half are lay persons, most of whom probably are college grads but the only qualification is that they are over 18 and a Confirmed member in good standing at an LCMS congregation. So, I can't answer your question.

I have a Ph.D. in physics.... but that had little to no impact on my vote. I simply felt it best to not take a science position. But the decision did not cause me any concern; it's a convention position - nothing more.



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Do you think they know anything at all about the age of the earth, though? Or anything about science? Or are these people‘s votes just influenced by their religious beliefs?