JOHN'S BAPTISM

[Doug]

1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. JOHN 1:31
It can be seen here that John's baptism was to prepare Israel to recognize the promised coming Messiah.
John's baptism was to identify Jesus as the Christ, The Son of God to Israel; to prepare Israel for the coming kingdom.
John's baptism is not for us, it was for Israel.

 

[MoreCoffee]

1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. JOHN 1:31
It can be seen here that John's baptism was to prepare Israel to recognize the promised coming Messiah.
John's baptism was to identify Jesus as the Christ, The Son of God to Israel; to prepare Israel for the coming kingdom.
John's baptism is not for us, it was for Israel.

Saint John the forerunner's baptism was administered to willing Israelites and it was for Jesus Christ. John's mission was the prepare the way of the Lord. He did that and baptised the Lord, Jesus Christ, who is the messiah and Son of God.

 

[Arsenios]

John did indeed baptize unto repentance calling the people of Israel...

However...

His Baptism of Christ was NOT unto repentance...

As the Forerunner and greatest of the Prophets, he prophesied that the Christ was coming Who would be baptizing in the Holy Spirit and in fire, and indeed, John 3:22 records that Jesus baptized...

So the Baptism of Christ was in order to fulfill ALL Righteousness, so that it is hard to avoid the conclusion that without this Baptism of Christ there would be no righteousness, yes? Which is why Christ asked His Apostles if they were willing to be baptized into His Baptism, which is where His Righteousness would be found...

The Baptism of John is unto preparation of the people of God to be baptized into Christ...

The Jews first, and then, with Peter Baptizing Cornelius, the Gentiles...

Arsenios

 

[Josiah]

1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. JOHN 1:31
It can be seen here that John's baptism was to prepare Israel to recognize the promised coming Messiah.
John's baptism was to identify Jesus as the Christ, The Son of God to Israel; to prepare Israel for the coming kingdom.
John's baptism is not for us, it was for Israel.

As I understand it, while not mentioned in the OT, the JEWS developed 3 different baptism rites (it seems apart from God's establishment)...


1. A baptism of dedication - a symbolic cleansing and setting aside for religious or worship purposes. Hands and various objects were so "baptized"

2. A baptism of adoption - as GENTILES converted to Judaism and brought into the old Covenant, there was a symbolic "re-birth" or "born again" (water,.. get it?) given a new name and said to now be God's child and in God's family. Whole familes were baptized together (including their children). IT was seen as a rite of adoption by God. This rite was only done once, as opposed to the others which were done often.

3. A baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. (Sound familiar?) This was a symbolic spiritual WASHING - sins being washed away, symbolizing God's mercy, forgiveness and cleansing. In some sects of Judaism, this was a very big deal and at times done daily or even more often. Very little children did not receive this - although they did baptism #2.


It is clear that John was doing # 3 (the text even states so). This was a JEWISH rite... done by a JEWISH prophet...


NONE of these where "moved" into Christianity - although there are certainly elements of all 3 found in CHRISTIAN baptism which Jesus establishes shortly before His death/resurrection. Of course, CHRISTIAN baptism is another subject for another day and thread.


It is true that the event of Jesus submitting to this Baptism #3 is the occasion of the revelation of Jesus' identity and ministry.... the event serves as His ordination in a sense. WHY? The Bible never says.... and theories abound. Perhaps it is no more complicated than Jesus is revealed as holy.... set aside..... for the purposes of God. In other words, it may be that while Jesus is participating in Baptism #3 the symbolism may well have been more in line with #1? Again, the Bible simply doesn't say.


I'd be very careful to make direct correlations between any one of these 3 JEWISH Baptisms and the CHRISTIAN one. None of them "carried over" per se. The Christian one certainly has similaries to all of them but not simply a carry over.




- Josiah




.

 

[Arsenios]

Mat 3:13-15
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
But John forbad him, saying, "I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?"
And Jesus answering said unto him,
"Suffer it to be so now:
for thus it befitteth us to bring to pass all righteousness."
Then he suffered him.

The purpose of Christ's Baptism by John the Baptist is plainly to bring to pass all Righteousness...

Not merely some, not merely human, not merely of the Law, but of ALL Righteousness...

THAT was the purpose of John's Baptism of Christ, into Whom we are ALL Baptized...

No small matter...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

3:15 (KJV)
And Jesus answering said unto him,
Suffer (5628) it to be so now:
for thus it becometh * (5723) (5748) us
to fulfil (5658) all righteousness.
Then he suffered (5719) him.

αποκριθεις δε ο ιησους ειπεν προς αυτον
Responding Jesus said unto him

αφες αρτι
Suffer it now


ουτως γαρ πρεπον εστιν ημιν πληρωσαι πασαν δικαιοσυνην
For thus fit it is to us to fulfill all righteousness

τοτε αφιησιν αυτον
Then suffered he Him.

So a very pivotal issue arises for the meaning of John's Baptism of Christ...
It is well known that John baptized unto repentance from sin...
It is equally well known that Christ needed no such repentance...
So WHY then did Christ seek John's baptism?
John also wanted to know...
And he asked Him...
And He answered him:

For thus it is meet to us to fulfill all righteousness.

And that is all He said...

So what does it mean?

What is ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS, for starters?
And then what does it mean TO FULFILL?
And then why to US? (and not simply to Jesus alone) is IT FIT
And why THUS? eg why IN THIS MANNER
He does NOT, you see, say: "By you baptizing Me will all righteousness be fulfilled..."
Instead, He says: IN THIS MANNER -
And the manner was: Immersion in the Jordan River's waters...
So does this mean that ALL Christians are to be Baptized in WATER?
Or merely most?
Or just some?
Or any at all?
Or just Jesus this one time?

And just HOW can Christ's Baptism by John fulfill ALL Righteousness?
And IS such fulfillment of all righteousness JUSTIFICATION?
Does this mean we are JUSTIFIED BY BAPTISM INTO CHRIST AS CHRIST WAS BAPTIZED BY JOHN?

BECAUSE:
THAT is how the Church has understood Christian Baptism for 2000 years now and counting...

Arsenios


Two Strong's Definitions:

FIT -
to stand out, to be conspicuous, to be eminent
to be becoming, seemly, fit

TO FULFILL -
to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
I abound, I am liberally supplied
to render full, i.e. to complete
to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
to consummate: a number
to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
of matters of duty: to perform, execute
of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment