Issues in the Reformation: Salvation

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Which you are not in submission to if you are self declared to be "not a modernist ccc catholic".

Fully willing to submit to the valid Roman pontiff, if you know of one?

the church is under persecution from the modernist apostasy

 

[Lanman87]

Fully willing to submit to the valid Roman pontiff, if you know of one?

the church is under persecution from the modernist apostasy

so much for Catholic unity...

 

[Lanman87]

Fully willing to submit to the valid Roman pontiff, if you know of one?

the church is under persecution from the modernist apostasy

Does this mean you are a sedevacantist?

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Does this mean you are a sedevacantist?

No i make no declarations or definitions
Only doubts, since pius 12 has the catholic faith been taught? Has the principles of the Freemasons been enshrined in the council of 1965 , did the Freemasons praise Jn 23? Since the Freemasons and the church have been in a fight to the death the Freemasons never praised any true pope, the day after John the 23 was announced as pope they said we whole heartedly support the revolution of John 23.! For a 100 years we tried to get rome to approve our principles, with the second Vatican council; “we triumphed” and they possess the Vatican since 1958 in my opinion
And the great apostasy is a foot, my opinion

 

[Lanman87]

No i make no declarations or definitions
Only doubts, since pius 12 has the catholic faith been taught? Has the principles of the Freemasons been enshrined in the council of 1965 , did the Freemasons praise Jn 23? Since the Freemasons and the church have been in a fight to the death the Freemasons never praised any true pope, the day after John the 23 was announced as pope they said we whole heartedly support the revolution of John 23.! For a 100 years we tried to get rome to approve our principles, with the second Vatican council; “we triumphed” and they possess the Vatican since 1958 in my opinion
And the great apostasy is a foot, my opinion

Do you submit to the authority of the current magesterium?

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Do you submit to the authority of the current magesterium?

Magesterium the valid bishops who hold the catholic faith without error yes

 

[Castle Church]

Well, that answers a lot. Look, you seem like a zealous person, and I commend you for that. But it is rather hypocritical to hold that the Roman Catholic Church cannot be without error in all that it teaches, but then also hold that the current pontiff is in fact in error, and that the current Magisterium is also in error. Label yourself as one or not - you are in self-schism from the very church you claim to be a part of.

I commend you for your sticking to your beliefs, but I am going to drop out of the conversation. It is not possible to have a conversation that edifies both of us under these circumstances.

 

[Josiah]

As for the derailing attempt....

The pitch of "I myself alone can't be wrong so I can't be wrong when I claim that I can't be wrong means I can't be wrong" is, undeniably, just a pure circular argument: it is nothing other than an egotistical, power-grabbing, accountability-evading claim of self for self. It don't get no more circular.

Now, it IS true that medieval Catholicism dogmatized that "lord-it-over-others" claim in its struggle first with the Eastern Church (the final split coming in 1054) and with secular governments - all in a struggle for power and lordship. And it was still a often used circular argument in the Reformation. And it's still in the Catechism (see CCC 87 for example). But (as a former Catholic I can tell you), it's been a long time since Catholics have use that outside of itself - it IS a PURE, extreme circular argument (and Catholic apologists took logic in college, LOL they KNOW that).

What our Catholic brother (and he IS my full, unseparated, equal brother with whom I'll be spending eternity in heaven... he IS a full member of the Body of Christ and the one, holy, catholic church) what he is doing is, well, silly and self-defeating. He is 1) Using a Protestant principle Catholicism rejects (Sola Scriptura) to try to show Protestants that the egotistical, power-grabbing medieval claims of the CC for itself is stated in the Bible then PROVES it's not. All he is doing is PROVING to Protestants that the claim is not only radically circular and an egotistical power grab and evasion of accountabilty but NOT shown in Scripture and 2) Showing he doesn't want to discuss the topic here (or any other - in all threads, it's this "let me know you how the Bible states nothing that I do" rubric. The whole point of the circular claim is to avoid apologetics, avoid accountability. "Just docilicly swallow it whole cuz I'm saying it and I'm saying I can't be wrong when I'm saying so there."



Back to the topic of the thread. See posts 1-3




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[Lanman87]

Magesterium the valid bishops who hold the catholic faith without error yes

I'm reading between the lines and assuming you do not submit to the current Pope and College of Bishops that is recognized by the Roman Catholic Church.

Who then do you submit to?

 

[Lanman87]

As for the derailing attempt....

Sorry for the derailing. I'm just trying to figure out Marks motives. Plus I find it ironic he is calling us all out for not being Catholic when he himself doesn't submit to the Catholic church.

 

[Lanman87]

Back to the topic of the thread. See posts 1-3

Josiah, How do Lutherans view the Sacraments role in the life of a christian?

I come from a Baptist Background and we didn't call Baptism and the Lord's Supper sacraments we called them ordinances. When I first heard the "sacraments" called "Means of Grace" I was a little taken aback. In my Baptist tradition all grace come through faith. . Can you explain, from a Lutheran perspective, what the Sacraments are and what they accomplish in the life of a Christian and how the sacraments work with "Faith Alone"?

 

[Josiah]

Sorry for the derailing. I'm just trying to figure out Marks motives. Plus I find it ironic he is calling us all out for not being Catholic when he himself doesn't submit to the Catholic church.

You are not attempting to derail.... Another is.

 

[Josiah]

Josiah, How do Lutherans view the Sacraments role in the life of a christian?

I come from a Baptist Background and we didn't call Baptism and the Lord's Supper sacraments we called them ordinances. When I first heard the "sacraments" called "Means of Grace" I was a little taken aback. In my Baptist tradition all grace come through faith. . Can you explain, from a Lutheran perspective, what the Sacraments are and what they accomplish in the life of a Christian and how the sacraments work with "Faith Alone"?

I can't do so here.... but see:


BAPTISM: Lutheran Perspective on Baptism (note posts 1-10)

COMMUNION: Lutherans: Holy Communion



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[Lamb]

You say you’re believers, a believer is not a Christian only a catechumen, faith and baptism are the first requirements of the new covenant church, all heretics, schismatics, and apostates are outside the church where there is no possibility of salvation!

A believer trusts in Jesus as Savior. Don't call me or any other believers here any names. We don't tolerate flaming.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

I'm reading between the lines and assuming you do not submit to the current Pope and College of Bishops that is recognized by the Roman Catholic Church.

The valid bishops

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

A believer trusts in Jesus as Savior. Don't call me or any other believers here any names. We don't tolerate flaming.

No offense just an explanation

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Faith without error and baptism are required

 

[Lanman87]

The valid bishops

@Faithhopeandcharity

Who decides which are valid and which aren't?

 

[Josiah]

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Not all Baptists are synergists, of course but some are. Always difficult to discuss the Baptist faith since about the only thing all Baptists have in common is an embrace of Anti-Paedobaptism and/or Credobaptism (a different issue for a different thread). But the pastor here does get to the central point of Lutherans on the issue of Salvation.



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