I believe Noah’s flood was 5,000 years ago, not 4,400.

[Lees]

The Septuagint came from Hebrew, it was translated into Greek.. your King James is an English translation and guess what, it includes books that the Rabbis flat out reject and since it's not in hebrew it has no substance... right?

The Jews chose to translate Hebrew to Greek looooong before they chose to translate them into any other languages... but go on believing that they just adored Latin so much that they broke the rule of the scribes by giving the 4th century Church it's first Hebrew scriptures ever!

My point was, there was no Septuagint that Jesus or the apostles quoted from. Jesus quoted from the Jews Hebrew Bible. The Jews rebelliousness against God did not remove that responsibility from them. Though what Jesus said wasn't always exactly the same as the Hebrew Old Testament, doesn't mean it was a scribal mistake.

The unbelieving Jews in debates with Christians would point out these differences. This encouraged the Alexandrian Jews to make a Greek translation and attempt to fix those differences. Origen admitted this. Thus you have Origens Hexapla around 200 A.D. And you have the oldest Alexandrian manuscripts, 4th and 5th century B.C. which are most likely copies of Origens Hexapla.

The oldest Alexandrian manuscripts of the Old Testament are a translation of the Hebrew. Origens Hexapla is a translation of the Hebrew.

The only reason to call these a 'Septuagint' is the fake made up story of the 'letter of Aristeas' to give credence to the Alexandrian manuscripts.

Yes the Jews as a people and nation reject Jesus and the New Testament books. But not all did. The New Testament was written by Jews.

Lees

 

[Lees]

Canaan isn’t there. You wanna write it in?

Why would I? I have no problem with those verses. Nor do I have a problem with (Luke 3:36). Why do you wanna take it out?

Lees

 

[Andrew]

My point was, there was no Septuagint that Jesus or the apostles quoted from. Jesus quoted from the Jews Hebrew Bible. The Jews rebelliousness against God did not remove that responsibility from them. Though what Jesus said wasn't always exactly the same as the Hebrew Old Testament, doesn't mean it was a scribal mistake.

The unbelieving Jews in debates with Christians would point out these differences. This encouraged the Alexandrian Jews to make a Greek translation and attempt to fix those differences. Origen admitted this. Thus you have Origens Hexapla around 200 A.D. And you have the oldest Alexandrian manuscripts, 4th and 5th century B.C. which are most likely copies of Origens Hexapla.

The oldest Alexandrian manuscripts of the Old Testament are a translation of the Hebrew. Origens Hexapla is a translation of the Hebrew.

The only reason to call these a 'Septuagint' is the fake made up story of the 'letter of Aristeas' to give credence to the Alexandrian manuscripts.

Yes the Jews as a people and nation reject Jesus and the New Testament books. But not all did. The New Testament was written by Jews.

Lees

The unbelieving Jews in debates with Christians would point out these differences. This encouraged the Alexandrian Jews to make a Greek translation and attempt to fix those differences. Origen admitted this. Thus you have Origens Hexapla around 200 A.D. And you have the oldest Alexandrian manuscripts, 4th and 5th century B.C. which are most likely copies of Origens Hexapla.

So... the unbelieving Jews debated with the Christians and you side with the unbelieving Jews..

I side with the Christians who say the Hebrew was being altered by the unbeliving Jews because it was mostly the prophecies that they were changing through Rabbanic paraphrasing so that they don't point to Jesus.

Here are just a few examples

 

[Lees]

So... the unbelieving Jews debated with the Christians and you side with the unbelieving Jews..

I side with the Christians who say the Hebrew was being altered by the unbeliving Jews because it was mostly the prophecies that they were changing through Rabbanic paraphrasing so that they don't point to Jesus.

Here are just a few examples

No. You discount that God gave the Jews the responsibility for His written Word. And you are willing to trust a 'Greek text' of the Old Testament that you have no proof ever existed.

You side with the Alexandrian believers who were given over to Greek philosophy and trying to merge the Jews Old Testament with Greek philosophy.

I already told you, the purpose of the Alexandrian church 'father', Origen, by his own admittance, was to translate his Hexapla to correct this.

That is the origin of the so called Seputagint. Add a little 'letter of Aristeas' to help validate, and 'wella'.

Lees

 

[Andrew]

No. You discount that God gave the Jews the responsibility for His written Word. And you are willing to trust a 'Greek text' of the Old Testament that you have no proof ever existed.

You side with the Alexandrian believers who were given over to Greek philosophy and trying to merge the Jews Old Testament with Greek philosophy.

I already told you, the purpose of the Alexandrian church 'father', Origen, by his own admittance, was to translate his Hexapla to correct this.

That is the origin of the so called Seputagint. Add a little 'letter of Aristeas' to help validate, and 'wella'.

Lees

What philosophy merging are you talking about?
The LXX agrees with the NT authors.

I showed you some examples, what philosophy?? please explain

 

[Lees]

What philosophy merging are you talking about?
The LXX agrees with the NT authors.

I showed you some examples, what philosophy?? please explain

I have explained already. Go back and read.

There is no LXX.

Lees

 

[Andrew]

I have explained already. Go back and read.

There is no LXX.

Lees

Right. No greek translation yet the Jews were debating Christians over their greek translation. Makes total sense.

 

[Lees]

Right. No greek translation yet the Jews were debating Christians over their greek translation. Makes total sense.

The early debate was over the Greek New Testament quotes of the Old Testament Hebrew. They didn't always coincide. It was not over any Septuagint. The differences in these prompted Origen to create his Hexapla and correct these.

No Septuagint. Just Origen's Hexapla and the older Alexandrian manuscripts, which are most likely copies of Origens Hexapla.

Lees

 

[Andrew]

The early debate was over the Greek New Testament quotes of the Old Testament Hebrew. They didn't always coincide. It was not over any Septuagint. The differences in these prompted Origen to create his Hexapla and correct these.

No Septuagint. Just Origen's Hexapla and the older Alexandrian manuscripts, which are most likely copies of Origens Hexapla.

Lees

Wow! So what about when they quote other parts of OT scripture? Were they all fluent in Hebrew now?

 

[Lees]

Wow! So what about when they quote other parts of OT scripture? Were they all fluent in Hebrew now?

I don't understand your question. Who are 'they'? What do you mean 'the other parts of OT'?

Lees

 

[NathanH83]

The early debate was over the Greek New Testament quotes of the Old Testament Hebrew. They didn't always coincide. It was not over any Septuagint. The differences in these prompted Origen to create his Hexapla and correct these.

No Septuagint. Just Origen's Hexapla and the older Alexandrian manuscripts, which are most likely copies of Origens Hexapla.

Lees

You say the KJV is perfect. But when I show that the KJV has one of the mistakes from the Septuagint, you just say, “Well it’s perfect even though I can’t explain the mistake.”

And Origen didn’t live in the days of Ptolemy II. Origen has nothing to do with the origin of the Septuagint.

 

[Lees]

You say the KJV is perfect. But when I show that the KJV has one of the mistakes from the Septuagint, you just say, “Well it’s perfect even though I can’t explain the mistake.”

And Origen didn’t live in the days of Ptolemy II. Origen has nothing to do with the origin of the Septuagint.

Where did I say the KJV is perfect?

You didn't show any mistake.

There is no Septuagint. Only the Alexandrian manuscripts and Origens Hexapla.

Lees

 

[NathanH83]

Where did I say the KJV is perfect?

You didn't show any mistake.

There is no Septuagint. Only the Alexandrian manuscripts and Origens Hexapla.

Lees

I showed the mistake. You just prefer to put blinders on and pretend it doesn’t exist, just like you pretend that the Septuagint doesn’t exist.

 

[Lees]

I showed the mistake. You just prefer to put blinders on and pretend it doesn’t exist, just like you pretend that the Septuagint doesn’t exist.

There is no mistake. If you want to believe there is, fine go ahead. Thus it is you that must correct and change it. Not me.

Lees

 

[NathanH83]

There is no mistake. If you want to believe there is, fine go ahead. Thus it is you that must correct and change it. Not me.

Lees

So you have no comment on whether the flood was 4,400 years ago or 5,000 years ago?

 

[Fritz Kobus]

Best I can figure, the flood happened somewheres around 4400 to 5000 years ago.

 

[Lees]

So you have no comment on whether the flood was 4,400 years ago or 5,000 years ago?

The exact date of the flood is not given in the Scripture, which means, it's exact date is not at all that important.

Usually, the chief argument is whether or not there was a Nohaic flood and whether or not it was universal or local.

As to trying to find exact dates by 'genealogies' in the Scripture, that can be hard, impossible, to do. God can remove people He doesn't like out of the genalogy. He can add people for another purpose.

As to the numbers given in (Genesis) pertaining to the genealogical record leading up to the flood, I believe an important truth surfaces, irregardless of the exact date of it.

1.) Methuselah--187 when Lamech was born. (Gen. 5:25)

2.) Lamach--182 when Noah was born. (Gen. 5:28)

3.) Noah--600 when the flood occurred. (Gen. 7:11)

4.) 187 + 182 + 600 = 969 years

5.) Methuselah lived 969 years. (Gen. 5:27)

6.) Methuselah died the year of the flood.

7.) Enoch, Methuselah's father, who God took. He didn't die. (Gen. 5:24) (Heb. 11:5)

What does this mean? It means that God made sure that none of His people died with the heathen in the flood. Enoch was translated. Methuselah died the year of the flood. And Noah and his family were delivered through the flood.

That is my comment. And quite a testimony to the perfect work of God.

Lees

 

[NathanH83]

The exact date of the flood is not given in the Scripture, which means, it's exact date is not at all that important.

Usually, the chief argument is whether or not there was a Nohaic flood and whether or not it was universal or local.

As to trying to find exact dates by 'genealogies' in the Scripture, that can be hard, impossible, to do. God can remove people He doesn't like out of the genalogy. He can add people for another purpose.

As to the numbers given in (Genesis) pertaining to the genealogical record leading up to the flood, I believe an important truth surfaces, irregardless of the exact date of it.

1.) Methuselah--187 when Lamech was born. (Gen. 5:25)

2.) Lamach--182 when Noah was born. (Gen. 5:28)

3.) Noah--600 when the flood occurred. (Gen. 7:11)

4.) 187 + 182 + 600 = 969 years

5.) Methuselah lived 969 years. (Gen. 5:27)

6.) Methuselah died the year of the flood.

7.) Enoch, Methuselah's father, who God took. He didn't die. (Gen. 5:24) (Heb. 11:5)

What does this mean? It means that God made sure that none of His people died with the heathen in the flood. Enoch was translated. Methuselah died the year of the flood. And Noah and his family were delivered through the flood.

That is my comment. And quite a testimony to the perfect work of God.

Lees

But what about the differences in Genesis 11?

 

[Lees]

But what about the differences in Genesis 11?

You must be extremly bored. That has already been addressed.

See posts #(141, 143, 145, 146, 150, 151, 156, 158, 159, 162, and 173)

Ask me again, I will say the same.

Lees

 

[NathanH83]

You must be extremly bored. That has already been addressed.

See posts #(141, 143, 145, 146, 150, 151, 156, 158, 159, 162, and 173)

Ask me again, I will say the same.

Lees

You didn’t address the issue though