How do you learn what your denomination believes?

[Lamb]

How do you learn what your denomination believes?

For Lutherans, we have the Small Catechism and for those who want more, the Book of Concord containing the Lutheran Confessions.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Catholics have Catechisms to teach the faith. The Catechism of the Catholic Church gives a fairly wide ranging presentation of Catholic teaching; it is sufficient for most purposes and answers most questions.

 

[psalms 91]

Methodists have the discipline but it seems to me that many do not actully know what the denom believes and are there for fellowship and contacts

 

[prism]

Methodists have the discipline but it seems to me that many do not actully know what the denom believes and are there for fellowship and contacts

My guess is that less than 10% know what their denomination teaches, they are there for the reasons you mentioned.

 

[Albion]

How do you learn what your denomination believes?

For Lutherans, we have the Small Catechism and for those who want more, the Book of Concord containing the Lutheran Confessions.

It may depend on how we think of "denomination" since most church groups have both liberal and conservative branches (the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America vs. the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, for instance), but in my own, the answer would be the Thirty-nine Articles of Religion. They're quite faithfully adhered to from what I can tell. And they're right there in the prayerbook, so it would be hard for any ordinary parishioner to be clueless about the church's position.

 

[Albion]

My guess is that less than 10% know what their denomination teaches, they are there for the reasons you mentioned.

The question here asks how the people can know what the church believes, but we might also wonder how many of them feel the need to agree with it, once they know.

In some churches, the situation you've pointed to is definitely what has happened, and your comments referred to Methodists specifically. But there are other churches in which the people not only know but overwhelmingly agree with the church's doctrines and practices. That fact may be surprising or encouraging, depending on how we look at it.

 

[prism]

The question here asks how the people can know what the church believes, but we might also wonder how many of them feel the need to agree with it, once they know.

Being a denomination, I would imagine they have a specific summary (Confession of Faith) of what they confess, teach and believe.

In some churches, the situation you've pointed to is definitely what has happened, and your comments referred to Methodists specifically. But there are other churches in which the people not only know but overwhelmingly agree with the church's doctrines and practices. That fact may be surprising or encouraging, depending on how we look at it.

I was speaking anecdotally and from experience (but no experience in a Methodist Church) where, for example we would visit a Dutch Reformed, and the first question out of many members was, "What is your last name?"...and no, my wife doesn't have windmill earrings. Then to be fair, at an LCMS we had a member that spoke stringently about being baptized by the pastor. I knew enough of the Lutheran Confessions where they believe it is Christ (through water and His Word) who baptizes.. Most Reformed and Lutherans knew little to nothing about their own Confessions, whether the L.C./S.C, BOC Augsburg, Smalcald, Westminster or Belgic. I will have to give a tip-of-the-hat to the Reformed Baptists who are diligent in their 1689 London Confession (even though it's a stripped down (plagiarized?) version of the Westminster).

 

[Albion]

Being a denomination, I would imagine they have a specific summary (Confession of Faith) of what they confess, teach and believe.

My point was that, if we consider a "denomination" to be some "family of faith' such as the Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, etc., then we CANNOT expect all the members to have a sure-fire guide that defines that body's beliefs. That is the case because some churches in each of these groups (almost without exception) hold to the traditional statements of faith, creeds, and catechisms while others no longer consider them to be authoritative and/or obligatory,

Consider the Lutheran example that has already been referred to. Some synods affirm the historic Lutheran statements of faith but others no longer do. In order to answer the question of this thread with any precision, this fact has somehow to be taken into consideration.

I was speaking anecdotally and from experience (but no experience in a Methodist Church) where, for example we would visit a Dutch Reformed, and the first question out of many members was, "What is your last name?"...and no, my wife doesn't have windmill earrings. Then to be fair, at an LCMS we had a member that spoke stringently about being baptized by the pastor. I knew enough of the Lutheran Confessions where they believe it is Christ (through water and His Word) who baptizes..

Only in principle would that be the case. The Lutheran church member that you are referring to was saying that the pastor should perform the baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost just as the church has always done and Christ himself ordered.

Also, all sacraments by definition make use of Earthly, physical, elements (as indicated in Scripture) in order to carry out the spiritual purpose for which they were instituted, and they thus require a human being to administer them; they are not purely mental.

 

[Messy]

How do you learn what your denomination believes?

For Lutherans, we have the Small Catechism and for those who want more, the Book of Concord containing the Lutheran Confessions.

Just pay attention with the Bible studies.

 

[Josiah]

I think sometimes what is believed is a bit hidden from people....

1. I was homeschooled as a kid, but this was done in close connection with a big Christian school associated by a big Christian church. In truth, the church is Baptist (a member of the SBC) but the church keeps this a deep, dark secret. NOWHERE is this association mentioned - in the name, on the website, in the bulletin - NOWHERE. The word isn't so much as mentioned. Now, IF YOU ASK, I think it's revealed. And the church IS clearly Baptist in doctrine (Reformed Baptist, actually a bit Calvinist but with very anabaptist views of the Sacraments) but again, you'd need to know what Reformed Baptists believe and hear a LOT of sermons to put that together. It seems to ME this is fairly common in American Protestantism... Congregations often seem to keep their and denominational affiliation a deep, dark secret.

2. My brother used to attend a HUGE mega church (you've heard of it). It's a non-denom, or at least so it seems (see above). My brother thought it was non-denom anyway. I asked him what this church believes and he didn't know, specifically. "It just says it's Christian." But he agreed to check that out. He asked one of the (many) pastors and was told "We believe and teach what the Bible does; we are a solidly biblical church." Yeah, Mormons say the same thing. He never got anything clearer than that. Now, I strongly suspect that it DOES have some theological position (although I could not detect any in the 3 services there that I atttended) but they obviously want to keep that a secret.

It's revealing.... look at the website of most parishes.... many have NOTHING about what they believe, and when they do it's often just as fuzzy as that mega church, "We just believe what the BIble says."



WHY keep teachings a secret? Two possibilities....

1. Some care far more with getting/keeping _______ in the seats than truth. Teachings can divide.

2. They don't actually have any teachings, it's all just relativism, feelings and opinions. As Pilate said, "What is truth?" They won't "pin it down" because they don't believe there is anything to pin down.





.

 

[Albion]

Yes, intentionally hidden.

I suppose that this could be considered shameful, or it might be considered a smart tactic, but in either case, what you reported is true and is gaining ground.

In a time of declining memberships, these churches think that looking non-denominational, even when they belong to a denomination in the strictest sense of that word, will attract the people who have the idea that denominationalism is confining or too militant or something else that they think they oppose.

A while back, denominational congregations began dropping the denominational name from the local title. Thus, Mount of Olives Baptist Church became just Mount of Olives Church with, maybe, something about the affiliation following in small letters. And more recently, the idea is to just name the thing some nice word, like Victory Church.

As for the doctrines, often the published ones are reduced to a handful of the most obvious, such as "1) We believe in the Bible. 2) We believe in Jesus Christ, our Savior," and several others that would offend hardly anyone other than a committed atheist.

This doesn't mean that the church is actually without any more specific doctrinal position, but when the church represents itself to prospective converts in the deliberately vague way that we've both described, it allows the pastor to make his personal beliefs, whether they be quirky, heretical or orthodox, become the unofficial stance of the whole church.

 

[Messy]

I think sometimes what is believed is a bit hidden from people....

1. I was homeschooled as a kid, but this was done in close connection with a big Christian school associated by a big Christian church. In truth, the church is Baptist (a member of the SBC) but the church keeps this a deep, dark secret. NOWHERE is this association mentioned - in the name, on the website, in the bulletin - NOWHERE. The word isn't so much as mentioned. Now, IF YOU ASK, I think it's revealed. And the church IS clearly Baptist in doctrine (Reformed Baptist, actually a bit Calvinist but with very anabaptist views of the Sacraments) but again, you'd need to know what Reformed Baptists believe and hear a LOT of sermons to put that together. It seems to ME this is fairly common in American Protestantism... Congregations often seem to keep their and denominational affiliation a deep, dark secret.

2. My brother used to attend a HUGE mega church (you've heard of it). It's a non-denom, or at least so it seems (see above). My brother thought it was non-denom anyway. I asked him what this church believes and he didn't know, specifically. "It just says it's Christian." But he agreed to check that out. He asked one of the (many) pastors and was told "We believe and teach what the Bible does; we are a solidly biblical church." Yeah, Mormons say the same thing. He never got anything clearer than that. Now, I strongly suspect that it DOES have some theological position (although I could not detect any in the 3 services there that I atttended) but they obviously want to keep that a secret.

It's revealing.... look at the website of most parishes.... many have NOTHING about what they believe, and when they do it's often just as fuzzy as that mega church, "We just believe what the BIble says."



WHY keep teachings a secret? Two possibilities....

1. Some care far more with getting/keeping _______ in the seats than truth. Teachings can divide.

2. They don't actually have any teachings, it's all just relativism, feelings and opinions. As Pilate said, "What is truth?" They won't "pin it down" because they don't believe there is anything to pin down.





.

Most evangelical churches here just have some standard short thing, like that creed song and for the rest it depends on which Bible school the pastor went to and if he agrees with all of it or skips stuff. Why write everything down when there is already a Bible? What did Jesus and the disciples have? The O.T. They were doing a pretty good job without a huge extra book or list. Only the pharisees had the nonsense book and changed things from the O.T.
And you can just look in the stuff you get with their Bible school or school of ministry. That's on paper. They are part of an organization of all evangelical churches that work together. For instance one guy, I went to his church decades ago, was very good, but often they don't know as much as the reformed and this guy was a popular one, so then they sometimes think they're something and he preached weird stuff. Dont take the vaccin cause then you take the mark of the beast, that sort of stuff, so the other evangelical leaders talked to him, he didnt listen and he's not part of the group anymore. That is also a way to see instantly if it is normal or off. Variety is fine. One is more reformed, the other isn't, but too crazy is a ban or a church split, like with the Toronto blessing. Since then you have normal evangelical churches and charismatic churches, sometimes about money, you'd better stay far away from. No need to read what they believe. They believe that they have to be succesful and rich from your money = an instant bye bye.

 

[Albion]

Most evangelical churches here just have some standard short thing, like that creed song and for the rest it depends on which Bible school the pastor went to and if he agrees with all of it or skips stuff. Why write everything down when there is already a Bible?

Because of the conflicting interpretations of certain Bible passages that the various Christian denominations have adopted??

 

[Messy]

Because of the conflicting interpretations of certain Bible passages that the various Christian denominations have adopted??

Yes but they pick one interpretation and just preach that and if they give Bible studies or a Bible school they write it down anyway for the lessons, but not all churches do that. I went to one where every week someone else preached. No idea if they even had a pastor, cause it was all very equal. They did have I think it was elders who preached, but there were differences in what they believed. One guy sounded quite calvinistic. He used to be catholic. In one church they have different opinions. You only know what they are when you listen to the preachings.

 

[Albion]

The question to which I replied there asked "Why write everything down when there is already a Bible?"

The reason that churches, congregations, and so on publish their statements of belief owes to the fact that there are many different interpretations of the meaning of what is IN the Bible. One church asserts a certain meaning while other churches have entirely different ones.

Regarding the congregation that you visited, it sounds like it is one that permits a wide variety of interpretations. In such a case, the church would be allowing a broad range of interpretations by the individual members, so for them there is less of a problem. Believe whatever you want in most instances, therefore. However, most denominations have stricter beliefs. They just don't all agree on them.

 

[Messy]

The question to which I replied there asked "Why write everything down when there is already a Bible?"

The reason that churches, congregations, and so on publish their statements of belief owes to the fact that there are many different interpretations of the meaning of what is IN the Bible. One church asserts a certain meaning while other churches have entirely different ones.

Regarding the congregation that you visited, it sounds like it is one that permits a wide variety of interpretations. In such a case, the church would be allowing a broad range of interpretations by the individual members, so for them there is less of a problem. Believe whatever you want in most instances, therefore. However, most denominations have stricter beliefs. They just don't all agree on them.

I get the idea that, apart from some non essential differences, almost everyone believes the same and you can just call it protestant, at least in my country. The Lutherans, reformed and other reformed now go together as the protestant church of the Netherlands. The evangelicals are just protestant light, with music other than organ and no black suits.

 

[prism]

My point was that, if we consider a "denomination" to be some "family of faith' such as the Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, etc., then we CANNOT expect all the members to have a sure-fire guide that defines that body's beliefs. That is the case because some churches in each of these groups (almost without exception) hold to the traditional statements of faith, creeds, and catechisms while others no longer consider them to be authoritative and/or obligatory,

It used to be, that when a prospective sought membership in a Reformed or Lutheran Church, not only were they asked if they agreed with the by-laws of the local church they were seeking membership in, but we're expected to be familiar with their articles of faith their Church or synod held to,so if they had any questions they could air them.

 

[prism]

1. I was homeschooled as a kid, but this was done in close connection with a big Christian school associated by a big Christian church. In truth, the church is Baptist (a member of the SBC) but the church keeps this a deep, dark secret. NOWHERE is this association mentioned - in the name, on the website, in the bulletin - NOWHERE. The word isn't so much as mentioned. Now, IF YOU ASK, I think it's revealed. And the church IS clearly Baptist in doctrine (Reformed Baptist, actually a bit Calvinist but with very anabaptist views of the Sacraments) but again, you'd need to know what Reformed Baptists believe and hear a LOT of sermons to put that together. It seems to ME this is fairly common in American Protestantism... Congregations often seem to keep their and denominational affiliation a deep, dark secret.

I may be wrong and don't know their true motives for changing the name, but it strikes me as compromise and not wanting to offend for the sake of numbers. This goes hand in hand with the dumbing down of doctrine we see today.

An old saying, 'I may not agree with your position but at least I know which cow cake it is you're standing on.' lol

 

[Albion]

I get the idea that, apart from some non essential differences, almost everyone believes the same and you can just call it protestant, at least in my country.

Without going through the list, I believe you are correct about that.

In the USA, however, the number of denominations is almost limitless, so it's not a surprise that virtually every Christian doctrine is contested by some of them.

The Lutherans, reformed and other reformed now go together as the protestant church of the Netherlands. The evangelicals are just protestant light, with music other than organ and no black suits.

 

[Albion]

It used to be, that when a prospective sought membership in a Reformed or Lutheran Church, not only were they asked if they agreed with the by-laws of the local church they were seeking membership in, but we're expected to be familiar with their articles of faith their Church or synod held to,so if they had any questions they could air them.

Indeed. And the key words there are "It used to be."

At the same time, I notice that you named two of the denominations that historically have been among the most concerned about having correct doctrine. Were such a list to include a dozen or so of the well-known but less doctrinally demanding church bodies, that list would present us with examples of denominations that have become very liberal or flexible in recent decades and, in some cases, have experienced a formal split between the more traditional or conservative churches and the less judgmental ones.