First the Prohibition, Then the Go Ahead

[prism]

Can someone explain why the prohibition (Lev & Deut), then the mandatory admonishment (John)?


(Lev 17:14) for it is the life of all flesh. Its blood sustains its life. Therefore I said to the children of Israel, 'You shall not eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.'


(Deu12:23) Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood isthe life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.


(Joh6:53) Then Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man,and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

(Joh6:54) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Lees]

Can someone explain why the prohibition (Lev & Deut), then the mandatory admonishment (John)?


(Lev 17:14) for it is the life of all flesh. Its blood sustains its life. Therefore I said to the children of Israel, 'You shall not eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.'


(Deu12:23) Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood isthe life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.


(Joh6:53) Then Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man,and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

(Joh6:54) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

I would say (Lev.) and (Deut.) are dealing with dietary laws for the Jews, as I don't believe it was just the sacrificial blood that was not to be eaten. (Lev. 19:25-26)

In (John) Jesus is dealing with what is necessary for eternal life. And the blood of the animal sacrifices never provided eternal life for anyone. (Heb. 10:4)

Lees

 

[prism]

I would say (Lev.) and (Deut.) are dealing with dietary laws for the Jews, as I don't believe it was just the sacrificial blood that was not to be eaten. (Lev. 19:25-26)

In (John) Jesus is dealing with what is necessary for eternal life. And the blood of the animal sacrifices never provided eternal life for anyone. (Heb. 10:4)

Lees

Thanks, at least we can see why many of the Jews took offense...


John 6:6,53-56 NKJV
[53] Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. [54] Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. [56] He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

John 6:66 NKJV
From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.

 

[Lees]

Thanks, at least we can see why many of the Jews took offense...


John 6:6,53-56 NKJV
[53] Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. [54] Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. [56] He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

John 6:66 NKJV
From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.

Quite welcome. I believe if we go back to the beginning of (John 6), things become clearer.

A great multitude followed Jesus because of the miracles He did. (John 6:2) Food became an issue with such a great multitude. (6:5) Jesus miraculously provided for the five thousand. (6:6-13) For this reason, many said this must be the Messiah. (6:14) But Jesus refused their effort to crown Him Messiah. (6:15)

Miraculously Jesus walks on water to join the 12 disciples in their boat as it went toward Capernanum. (John 6:16-21) The multitude who was willing to make Jesus their Messiah later found boats to go to the other side also. (John 6:22-24) Then they questioned Jesus as to how he got there. (6:25)

And Jesus said a very profound thing. (John 6:26) "Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled." Which resulted in the debate that followed concerning Jesus as the Bread of Life. (6:26-51). Which revealed the heart of many of these so called 'disciples'. (6:42) (6:52) (6:60) And during this Jesus stated, "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life...." (6:54)"

And the debate ended with this. (John 6:61-64) As a result many so called disciples ceased to follow. (6:66) Causing Jesus to ask the 12, "Doth this offend you? (6:61) .For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him." And Jesus asked the 12, "Will you also go away" (6:67). To which Peter basically said, 'where would we go'. (6:68) And then professed the true faith, "thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God."

Important to note: Jesus didn't care who he offended. And when the cheap disciples ceased to follow because they were offended, He didn't try and say, "wait'...don't go. Let me explain" Like so many Christians try and do. Jesus in essence said, go ahead and be offended. Because what you're offended of is the Truth about Me.

Lees

 

[prism]

Important to note: Jesus didn't care who he offended.

So unlike today, where we are hyper sensitive to everyone's 'feelings'

 

[Messy3]

Can someone explain why the prohibition (Lev & Deut), then the mandatory admonishment (John)?


(Lev 17:14) for it is the life of all flesh. Its blood sustains its life. Therefore I said to the children of Israel, 'You shall not eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.'


(Deu12:23) Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood isthe life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.


(Joh6:53) Then Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man,and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

(Joh6:54) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Because we must have His Life in us and not the life of an animal that died.

 

[prism]

Because we must have His Life in us and not the life of an animal that died.

Without getting into Kosher food laws, I'm wondering why the prohibition in Leviticus? The life of animal flesh is in the blood, but don"t most of us eat meat (bird or animal) with blood? Lev !7:13-14?
Some say, we're only under the moral law of the OT, is it immoral to drink the life of an animal? (Don't let PETA see this post). lol

 

[Messy3]

Without getting into Kosher food laws, I'm wondering why the prohibition in Leviticus? The life of animal flesh is in the blood, but don"t most of us eat meat (bird or animal) with blood? Lev !7:13-14?
Some say, we're only under the moral law of the OT, is it immoral to drink the life of an animal? (Don't let PETA see this post). lol

It's still forbidden in the N.T.
Acts 15
For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Dutch translation says the soul of the flesh is in the blood. I assume it's because you may not eat the soul of an animal or that you become one with the animal, cause I once heard that's why cannibals drank blood from humans, to become one with them, get their strength or something and then it makes perfect sense to drink Jesus' blood, become one with Him.

 

[prism]

It's still forbidden in the N.T.
Acts 15
For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

my understanding is the Law was never given to the Gentiles; this was urged so no offense was given to the Jews.

Dutch translation says the soul of the flesh is in the blood. I assume it's because you may not eat the soul of an animal or that you become one with the animal, cause I once heard that's why cannibals drank blood from humans, to become one with them, get their strength or something and then it makes perfect sense to drink Jesus' blood, become one with Him.

at least we can see why many of the Jews took offense (see post #3) comparing it with Lev 17:14 ...

 

[atpollard]

So unlike today, where we are hyper sensitive to everyone's 'feelings'

In a sense, Jesus cared MORE about those people than we do. Jesus cared about what was NEEDED for their well being (the TRUTH) and was willing that they might be offended rather than DIE IN IGNORANCE of the very Truth that might save them. We fear offending anyone, so we are prepared to allow them to DIE IN IGNORANCE rather than risk the possibility that they might be offended and we might be uncomfortable … so we hide in Fortress Church and smile at the suffering and dying multitudes (grateful that we are safe).

 

[atpollard]

Without getting into Kosher food laws, I'm wondering why the prohibition in Leviticus? The life of animal flesh is in the blood, but don"t most of us eat meat (bird or animal) with blood? Lev !7:13-14?
Some say, we're only under the moral law of the OT, is it immoral to drink the life of an animal? (Don't let PETA see this post). lol

Differentiation. The RULE was never for Gentiles, but the LESSON behind the LAW (all 613, not just the 10) is still valid for us.

Pagans (the WORLD living apart from God), drank the blood of animals as part of their worship services because they wanted the “magic” and “power” contained in the blood. God’s people were not to be like the world.

Pagans mourned the dead as a people with no hope and cut themselves and tattooed themselves as an act of worship to commemorate the dead. God’s people were not to be like the world.

Pagans shaved and wore clothes of mixed fabrics and decorated themselves with elaborate jewelry and makeup. God’s people were to be distinct and different in their hair and clothes and appearance so the world would immediately recognize that they belonged to God. God’s people were not to be like the world.

On and on, the regulations of the LAW create a CLEAR distinction between how the WORLD looks and acts and lives, compared to how God’s People look and act and live. The REGULATIONS of the LAW are gone (nailed to a cross and “completed”), but the call for the People of God to be DIFFERENT still stands … it actually stands even more stark.

• Now we are called to Bless those that Curse us.
• Now we are called to LOVE those that hate us, Love other people as deeply as we love our own bodies, Love God with every ounce of our EVERYTHING!
• Now we are called to tame even our tongue.
• Now we are called to seek the welfare of others as a servant … as the only true leadership.
• Now we are told to give freely and generously and expect nothing in return.
• In short, we are called to WALK the TALK as Jesus showed us. That will make us even MORE different from the WORLD than the LAW ever did … not less different.

We serve a God of MORE, not less.

 

[prism]

Differentiation. The RULE was never for Gentiles, but the LESSON behind the LAW (all 613, not just the 10) is still valid for us.

So, as Christians, through faith in Christ, the law has become a LESSON? I thought the law was a tutor to BRING us to Christ.

 

[atpollard]

So, as Christians, through faith in Christ, the law has become a LESSON? I thought the law was a tutor to BRING us to Christ.

I suspect that ALL of the OT is a lesson. What we NEED to know is contained in the Gospel of John (at least according to John), and the Old Covenant has “passed away” and been “rendered obsolete” (at least according to Hebrews).

Technically, the Law was THEIR tutor … I was never instructed in 613 laws that I should perform. My parents were atheist. I was taught Nihilism (there is no objective morality or truth).

 

[prism]

I suspect that ALL of the OT is a lesson.

Yes, insofar as it contains stories/narratives.

What we NEED to know is contained in the Gospel of John

Yet even you brought up the book of Hebrews.
(2Ti 3:16). All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Technically, the Law was THEIR tutor

Ours as well, Paul speaking to the Galatians: Many which were Gentiles.
Galatians 3:24 NKJV
Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

I was never instructed in 613 laws that I should perform.

Neither was I, my religious education comprised of the Ten Commandments and Ben Hur; but Scripture says even the Gentiles have the law written on their hearts.

Romans 2:14-15 NKJV
for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, [15] who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

My parents were atheist. I was taught Nihilism (there is no objective morality or truth).

My dad was an atheist to his grave, (my mom was mum when it came to religion). I was steeped in secular humanism / evolution. Atheists have no grounds or basis for 'absolute' morality.

 

[BruceLeiter]

Can someone explain why the prohibition (Lev & Deut), then the mandatory admonishment (John)?


(Lev 17:14) for it is the life of all flesh. Its blood sustains its life. Therefore I said to the children of Israel, 'You shall not eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.'


(Deu12:23) Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood isthe life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.


(Joh6:53) Then Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man,and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

(Joh6:54) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

First, the external forms of the Old Testament laws have been taken away through Jesus' death. Second, Jesus' seven "I am" claims in the Gospel of John say he is God and are figurative metaphors or comparisons pointing to real spiritual reality. For example, in the John 6 passage, he says that he is the Bread of Life in contrast to the manna that sustained Israel's life in the desert and after he had just fed the 5,000 with a tiny amount of food. He is pointing us to himself as the Source of all nourishment and sustenance for our bodies and souls, not asking us to nibble on him literally.

 

[prism]

Second, Jesus' seven "I am" claims in the Gospel of John say he is God and are figurative metaphors

So, He is God but only metaphorically or figuratively?

 

[BruceLeiter]

So, He is God but only metaphorically or figuratively?

No, he is real "spiritual reality," as I said in my post. Jesus' seven "I am" (Exodus 3 and 4) claims relate those divine truths to physical, literal things and people--for example, a shepherd (Psalm 23), a door to the sheepfold, bread of life, resurrection and life, light of the world, and others. That's what a metaphor is. The point is that Jesus repeatedly claims to be God in the Gospel of John.

 

[BruceLeiter]

I suspect that ALL of the OT is a lesson. What we NEED to know is contained in the Gospel of John (at least according to John), and the Old Covenant has “passed away” and been “rendered obsolete” (at least according to Hebrews).

Technically, the Law was THEIR tutor … I was never instructed in 613 laws that I should perform. My parents were atheist. I was taught Nihilism (there is no objective morality or truth).

You're right about the external, national forms of the law, but the principles or main ideas of the laws continue as Christians' guidelines like the need to protect life and avoiding anger (no murder), sex only within marriage and avoiding lust (no adultery), protect the truth (no false testimony), honoring our authorities (parents), rejecting all gods besides the true God, loving God with our whole lives, and others in the laws (in this case, the Ten Commandments). (See Jesus' sermon on the mount--Matthew 5-7.).