Excerpts from Enoch

[Origen]

I am betting that most people have never read 1 Enoch. So I thought I might post some excerpts for critical examination.

Excerpt One
Enoch 19:-1-2
And Uriel said to me, ‘Here angels who have mingled with women stand, and their multiform spirits are mistreating humans and they will deceive them to offer sacrifices to demons until the great judgment, in which they will be judged with respect until perfection. And their women, those of the transgressing angels, will become sirens.

The Greek σειρῆνας (i.e sirens), for those of you who have forgotten your Greek mythology, were part bird part human looking sea-nymphs who lured sailors to their doom with their song. The text has the angel Uriel proclaiming that the women who took part in this transgression would be changed into sirens.

For more information on the sirens see: https://www.theoi.com/Pontios/Seirenes.html

 

[Origen]

Excerpt Two
Enoch 7:1-5
And the women became pregnant and bore great giants of three thousand cubits, who devoured the labors of people. And when the people were not able to sustain them, the giants dared (to attack) them, and they devoured the people. And they began to sin with birds and wild animals and reptiles and fish, and to devour one another’s flesh, and drink blood. Then the earth appealed against the lawless ones.

In this text the women give brith to giants who are 3000 cubits. These giants were so large and ate so much that there was not enough food to feed them so the giants resorted to eating the people who fed them.

Just for comparison the ark was only 300 cubits long. If we accept the standard length of a cubit as 18 inches, then t300 cubits would be equal to 4500 feet. The worlds tallest being is the Burj Khalifa (Dubai, United Arab Emirate) and it is only 2,722 feet tall.

 

[pinacled]

As I've said before, such literary style sounds theatrical which Roman's and Greeks were known for.

I wonder if those 4500 feet giants were cyclops that odysseus outsmarted.

 

[pinacled]

Book of Enoch - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[atpollard]

As I've said before, such literary style sounds theatrical which Roman's and Greeks were known for.

I wonder if those 4500 feet giants were cyclops that odysseus outsmarted.

Doesn’t that argue for the 1 Enoch being by someone other than Enoch?
The stories of Enoch had to be transmitted through NOAH’s family which would suggest a Job or Genesis writing style for the tales rather than a later Greek/Roman literary style.

 

[Andrew]

As I stated in the other thread, I cant speak for everything stated in the book of Enoch.
The version we have to today has notable contradictions however Jude quotes Enoch which indeed is a fact unless Jude is lying.

 

[Origen]

As I stated in the other thread, I cant speak for all the book of Enoch.
The version we have to today has notable contradictions however Jude quotes Enoch which indeed is a fact unless Jude is lying.

Jude quotes a prophecy given by the person named Enoch. Jude no where mentions the book of Enoch.

Moreover, as I have pointed out, the two quotes have very notable differences.

Ἰδοὺ ἦλθεν κύριος ἐν ἁγίαις μυριάσιν αὐτοῦ ποιῆσαι κρίσιν κατὰ πάντων καὶ ἐλέγξαι πᾶσαν ψυχὴν περὶ πάντων τῶν ἔργων ἀσεβείας αὐτῶν ὧν ἠσέβησαν καὶ περὶ πάντων τῶν σκληρῶν ὧν ἐλάλησαν κατ’ αὐτοῦ ἁμαρτωλοὶ ἀσεβεῖς. (Jude 14-15)

ὅτι ἔρχεται σὺν ταῖς μυριάσιν αὐτοῦ καὶ τοῖς ἁγίοις αὐτοῦ ποιῆσαι κρίσιν κατὰ πάντων καὶ ἀπολέσει πάντας τοὺς ἀσεβεῖς καὶ ἐλέγξει πᾶσαν σάρκα περὶ πάντων ἔργων τῆς ἀσεβείας αὐτῶν ὧν ἠσέβησαν καὶ σκληρῶν ὧν ἐλάλησαν λόγων, καὶ περὶ πάντων ὧν κατελάλησαν κατ’ αὐτοῦ ἁμαρτωλοὶ ἀσεβεῖς. (1 Enoch 1:9)

See What do you think about Jude quoting Enoch?

 

[Andrew]

Jude quotes a prophecy given by the person named Enoch. Jude no where mentions the book of Enoch.

Moreover, as I have pointed out, the two quotes have very notable differences.

Ἰδοὺ ἦλθεν κύριος ἐν ἁγίαις μυριάσιν αὐτοῦ ποιῆσαι κρίσιν κατὰ πάντων καὶ ἐλέγξαι πᾶσαν ψυχὴν περὶ πάντων τῶν ἔργων ἀσεβείας αὐτῶν ὧν ἠσέβησαν καὶ περὶ πάντων τῶν σκληρῶν ὧν ἐλάλησαν κατ’ αὐτοῦ ἁμαρτωλοὶ ἀσεβεῖς. (Jude 14-15)

ὅτι ἔρχεται σὺν ταῖς μυριάσιν αὐτοῦ καὶ τοῖς ἁγίοις αὐτοῦ ποιῆσαι κρίσιν κατὰ πάντων καὶ ἀπολέσει πάντας τοὺς ἀσεβεῖς καὶ ἐλέγξει πᾶσαν σάρκα περὶ πάντων ἔργων τῆς ἀσεβείας αὐτῶν ὧν ἠσέβησαν καὶ σκληρῶν ὧν ἐλάλησαν λόγων, καὶ περὶ πάντων ὧν κατελάλησαν κατ’ αὐτοῦ ἁμαρτωλοὶ ἀσεβεῖς. (1 Enoch 1:9)

See What do you think about Jude quoting Enoch?

Jude quoted the person Enoch, how so if it was never written down and how were those reading Jude supposed to verify the quote?

Oral tradition? Why not just quote Deuteronomy?

 

[Origen]

Jude quoted the person Enoch, how so if it was never written down and how were those reading Jude supposed to verify the quote?

Simple. Jude did so though the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Oral tradition?

That is possible.

Why not just quote Deuteronomy?

Some have made a case for that view.

 

[Origen]

Excerpt Three
Enoch 67:1–2
In those days, the word of God came unto me, and said unto me, “Noah, your lot has come up before me—a lot without blame, a lot of true love. At this time the angels are working with wood (making an ark) and when it is completed, I shall place my hands upon it and protect it, and the seed of life shall arise from it; and a substitute (generation) will come so that the earth will not remain empty (without inhabitants). (Charlesworth, J. H. (1983). The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha. (Vol. 1, p. 46). New York; London: Yale University Press.)


In this excerpt Noah is relaying what God told him concerning the ark and what would happen. It is the angels who build the ark not Noah.

 

[pinacled]

Excerpt Three
Enoch 67:1–2
In those days, the word of God came unto me, and said unto me, “Noah, your lot has come up before me—a lot without blame, a lot of true love. At this time the angels are working with wood (making an ark) and when it is completed, I shall place my hands upon it and protect it, and the seed of life shall arise from it; and a substitute (generation) will come so that the earth will not remain empty (without inhabitants). (Charlesworth, J. H. (1983). The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha. (Vol. 1, p. 46). New York; London: Yale University Press.)


In this excerpt Noah is relaying what God told him concerning the ark and what would happen. It is the angels who build the ark not Noah.

Interesting how the alleged angels worked wood to build the ark in place of noach and 7 others given instruction from The Most High.
It's as if the author is claiming that only the fallen are the capable hands of workmanship to build the ark.

Sounds like luciferian filth far as I can hear.

Instead of "The Son of man"(mankind) having authority, they were slaves to the ark built by the fallen.

 

[pinacled]

Honesty is a strength beyond integrity where patience is the edge unknown.
A color of patience where time scabbards a sword

If only such a comfort were found, then a snare would be revealed

 

[NathanH83]

I am betting that most people have never read 1 Enoch. So I thought I might post some excerpts for critical examination.

Excerpt One
Enoch 19:-1-2
And Uriel said to me, ‘Here angels who have mingled with women stand, and their multiform spirits are mistreating humans and they will deceive them to offer sacrifices to demons until the great judgment, in which they will be judged with respect until perfection. And their women, those of the transgressing angels, will become sirens.

The Greek σειρῆνας (i.e sirens), for those of you who have forgotten your Greek mythology, were part bird part human looking sea-nymphs who lured sailors to their doom with their song. The text has the angel Uriel proclaiming that the women who took part in this transgression would changed into sirens.

For more information on the sirens see: https://www.theoi.com/Pontios/Seirenes.html

[Staff edit]

This is just like the argument atheists make about the KJV mentioning unicorns. Noah Webster’s 1828 dictionary says a unicorn is a one-horned rhinoceros.

I made a video explaining it, and after the video got over a million views, most atheists don’t even make the “unicorn” argument anymore, because they realize what a lame argument it is.

The King James mentions a number of “fictitious” creatures, like satyrs, cockatrice, and fire-breathing dragons. There’s perfectly reasonable explanations for them.

The Greek Septuagint mentions sirens in Micah, Isaiah, and Job. Why? Well, it’s probably the same type of solution as the unicorn issue. Probably just because the word siren has more than one definition.

Oh, look at what Noah Webster’s 1828 dictionary says…

Well, well. Would you look at that? The word siren DOES have more than one definition.

Lame argument.

 

[pinacled]

Excerpt Three
Enoch 67:1–2
In those days, the word of God came unto me, and said unto me, “Noah, your lot has come up before me—a lot without blame, a lot of true love. At this time the angels are working with wood (making an ark) and when it is completed, I shall place my hands upon it and protect it, and the seed of life shall arise from it; and a substitute (generation) will come so that the earth will not remain empty (without inhabitants). (Charlesworth, J. H. (1983). The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha. (Vol. 1, p. 46). New York; London: Yale University Press.)


In this excerpt Noah is relaying what God told him concerning the ark and what would happen. It is the angels who build the ark not Noah.

Please continue further

 

[Origen]

[Staff edit]

This is just like the argument atheists make about the KJV mentioning unicorns. Noah Webster’s 1828 dictionary says a unicorn is a one-horned rhinoceros.

I made a video explaining it, and after the video got over a million views, most atheists don’t even make the “unicorn” argument anymore, because they realize what a lame argument it is.

The King James mentions a number of “fictitious” creatures, like satyrs, cockatrice, and fire-breathing dragons. There’s perfectly reasonable explanations for them.

The Greek Septuagint mentions sirens in Micah, Isaiah, and Job. Why? Well, it’s probably the same type of solution as the unicorn issue. Probably just because the word siren has more than one definition.

Oh, look at what Noah Webster’s 1828 dictionary says…

Well, well. Would you look at that? The word siren DOES have more than one definition.

Lame argument.

Now that's both very sad and hysterically funny at the same time.

 

[pinacled]

What about the 4 living creatures?

 

[NathanH83]

Now that's both very sad and hysterically funny at the same time.

What’s sad and funny? Be specific.

There’s no reason to believe that Enoch or the LXX are actually talking about a woman who is half fish, anymore than the King James is talking about a man who is half goat, or magical horses with horns.


These are the kinds of arguments that atheists make against the Bible.

The LXX also mentions donkey centaurs. It’s not talking about men who are half donkey.

 

[Origen]

What’s sad and funny? Be specific.

No need. Others reading this thread know what mean.

 

[NathanH83]

No need. Others reading this thread know what mean.

That sounds like an excuse to refuse to admit that you’ve been debunked on a silly argument that you just made.

While you’re at it, why don’t you make fun of the King James Bible for mentioning unicorns?

 

[Origen]

That sounds like an excuse to refuse to admit that you’ve been debunked on a silly argument that you just made.

If you want to believe the book of 1 Enoch is referencing a lizard native to the Carolinas, using as your poof the Webster’s 1828 dictionary, then by all means go for it. I feel very comfortable letting those who read this thread decide for themselves if they find your claim in any way coherent.

While you’re at it, why don’t you make fun of the King James Bible for mentioning unicorns?

I did not make fun of anything. Once again you are simply making things up as you go and trying to change the topic.