ELDoNA

Tigger

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ELDoNA=Evangelical Lutheran Dioceses of North America;

I’d like to open a discussion concerning it’s history and by extension it’s specific doctrines that differs from other confessional Lutheran synods.

My quick research into the subject shows the ELDoNA broke from the LCMS over objective justification (Which I believe the WELS & ELS also adhere to) and the LCMS’ apparent loosening of some confessional practices within its own ranks.

For what it’s worth I appreciate the perspective of objective justification but on the second point believe that the LCMS needs to do some ‘house cleaning’ and bring some needed uniformity where some laxity to some matters have crept into its walls. I might add that President Harrison has been addressing these issues and working to resolve them.
 

Lamb

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I have to read up on this about ELDoNA.
 

Tigger

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Here is a 10 minute video from a previous LCMS now ELDoNA pastor giving his perspective on the matter.

 

Tigger

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Exerpt taken from https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...stification/&usg=AOvVaw0qZgl5-xaTY78GH38bMGNH

Definition of objective justification.

“Lutheran theologians often speak of justification as having two aspects, objective and subjective. Objective justification is “God’s verdict of ‘not guilty’ upon the world for the sake of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection.” Subjective justification means that the benefits of God’s verdict of ‘not guilty’ become yours through faith.
 

Lamb

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I believe in Objective Justification because it is independent of us and is what happened at Calvary.
 

Josiah

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Some comments....


1. Pastor Sullivan, from "Ask the Pastor", has been a part of this protest movement. I've listened to MANY of his YouTube presentations and at times found him amiss, especially on the issue of Election and Justification. But his website SAYS he ONLY speaks "from the Holy Scriptures" and mentions nothing beyond that. I found that claim to be ...well.... not so. So, I approached his video with caution....


2. While he doesn't employ the usual self-ascribed title of "Confessional Lutheran" he is clearly of that bent. I've read and heard much from this group of LCMS folks.... and here's what is STUNNING to me: Never does their rant have any support in the Confessions. They will say, "Being Confessional, I hold..... but then don't quote the Confessions saying what they do because, well, they don't. Pastor Sullivan is certainly entitled to his OPINION and his SPIN on things, but as you know, I dislike the CLAIM that the Bible and Confessions say the same thing when they make it OBVIOUS they don't.


3. I find it ironic that his first shot at the LCMS is its (supposed) heretical teaching of "general justification regardless of faith." (Note, later he will twice reference Pieper's "Christian Dogmatics" as good stuff but Pieper passionately teaches exactly the thing he condemns). Actually, I suspect it's Pastor Sullivan who is wrong on this, but moving on..... he then attacks the LCMS for violating "clear Scripture" and "The Lutheran Confessions" for....


+ Not consistently practicing "Closed Communion." Pastor Sullivan constantly claims that he says nothing beyond "clear Scripture". And he claims to adhere to the Lutheran Confessions. He rebukes some LCMS congregations for violating both. But the REALITY is Scripture ("clear" or otherwise) says NOTHING about age mandates, the requirement of first being Confirmed, being an official member in good standing of a parish that is affiliated with a synod in which the LCMS (currently, this year) is officially in "full altar fellowship." NONE of that can be found in Scripture OR the Confessions. Yes, there are a FEW Synodical Convention Resolutions to that effect.... and his "spin" of those is not unknown in the LCMS, but none of that is found anywhere in "clear Scripture" and "the Lutheran Confessions." This always amazes me about these "Confessional Lutherans" - they rant about things that the Confessons do NOT teach (and sometimes, teach the opposite - see below). Interesting side-point: He repudiates pastors who consider the persons FAITH when he insists they should instead consider the denominational affiliation of the parish in which they hold membership... so faith doesn't matter, church membership does! Amazing. So, if someone is on the books of some LCMS church (but last attended in 1955) - they are okay, but an WELS person who is repentant, who holds to the Gospel, who accepts Real Presence (all unknown to the LCMS guy) the WELS person must be denied Christ's Sacrament and the LCMS admitted. Amazing. I find this kind of thing all too common from some of this bent. It often reminds me of Jesus' condemnation of the Pharisees.... imposing man-made law that actually serve to separate people from God and His grace.

+ Not removing congregations that worship in the style of the Reformed. While the NT and the Lutheran Confessions certainly speak of worship, there's noting about STYLE. In fact, if memory serves, the Lutheran Confessions actually state that it is NOT necessary for Christians to all worship the same. Luther himself wrote MANY different worship services.... only one of which was popularly used and survives to this day (although almost never used) - the LCMS finally put it in their hymnal in 2006 (it's Divine Service 5 IF you only use the hymns.... and much of the liturgy there is not original). Bottom line: there is no Lutheran sytle... and there has NEVER been one worship service among Lutherans (in the say it has - at least in centuries past - in the Orthodox, Catholic and Anglican churches). Not even in the LCMS. All he is doing is ignoring Scripture, the Confessions, and history.... to IMPOSE HIS tradition upon others. It reminds me of Jesus' condemnation of the Pharisees and their man-made laws that actually separated people from God and His grace.


Well, there is much more I could say..... but that's enough. When I was at the LCMS Synodical Convention a couple of years ago, I "discovered" this perspective (around beer, often) and found it troubling and dangerous (although coming from very sincere and good men whom I enjoyed meeting). I do NOT desire to hinder how they choose to do things in their parish ... only question their felt need that everyone follow their example (or they are heretical and need to leave).



Blessings!


- Josiah




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Fritz Kobus

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Pastor Sullivan needs a copy of Lenski's New Testament commentaries. Lenski is not a fan of objective justification.
 
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