Does God Predestine People to Hell?

[hobie]

Now this idea causes a unseen problem if one looks, as Gods Word does not teach that individuals are predestined to hell. Now some try to teach that God predestines only to heaven or salvation, but like two sides of the coin, you cannot have some predestine to eternal life and the others predestined to nothing, as scripture gives us there is only one other choice, perdition.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

So you can see how if God predestines who is saved, then He would also predestine who perishes and that would show a God that is unjust and unrighteous and we know who came up with that lie since the beginning. So if this idea that a person is predestined to one place and is not taught in the Bible otherwise it would undermine our confidence in the goodness and the justice of God, then one has to look and discern how one can be predestined to the opposite place. Either both are true, or neither are, and I dont think any true Christian would declare or tell someone they have no choice but to burn in hellfire, to say nothing of believing that God would predestine one to damnation.

God desires all to be saved and works for this purpose and ask believer to do the same as we see:
1 Timothy 2:1-6
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

[Frankj]

The Bible says we are judged by our works, that doesn't seem to mean a predestination to hell.

Ref: In the words of Jesus, Matthew 16:27, Matthew 12:36–37, Matthew 25:31–46, John 5:28–29

 

[jswauto]

a unseen problem

The Gospel Must be Preached​

The Bible certainly teaches predestination. The question is not whether predestination exists, but what God says is predestined and to what end.
Paul writes:

“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son...”
Romans 8:29

And:

“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself...”
Ephesians 1:5

Again:

“In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.”
Ephesians 1:11

Notice the language.
We are predestined to conformity to Christ, to adoption, and to the inheritance God has purposed for those who are in Christ.
That is considerably different from saying that Scripture teaches God created certain individuals for the purpose of making sure they could never believe and therefore must go to hell.

God genuinely calls sinners to repentance​

This is where the passages quoted become very important.
2 Peter 3:9 says the Lord is:

“not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

And 1 Timothy 2:3-4 speaks of God our Savior:

“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”

We should also consider God's own declaration:

“As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live...”
Ezekiel 33:11

Jesus likewise lamented over Jerusalem:

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem... how often would I have gathered thy children together... and ye would not!”
Matthew 23:37

That last statement is particularly significant.
Christ says, in essence, I would, but you would not.
There is God's gracious desire on one side and man's stubborn resistance on the other.

And Scripture repeatedly places responsibility upon the sinner​

Jesus said:

“And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”
John 5:40

He does not say, “You cannot come because God predestined you to hell.”
He says:
“Ye will not come.”
Likewise:

“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already...”
John 3:18

And only a few verses later:

“And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light...”
John 3:19

Why condemnation?
Because God arbitrarily assigned these people to hell before they existed?
That is not the reason given in the passage.
They loved darkness rather than light.
That preserves something extremely important throughout Scripture:

God's judgment is righteous.​

No sinner will someday stand before God able to say:
“I wanted Christ. I wanted salvation. I wanted to repent and believe, but You wouldn't let me because You created me for hell.”
That picture is very difficult to reconcile with the invitations of Scripture:

“Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”
Revelation 22:17

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Romans 10:13

“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.”
Acts 16:31

The gospel invitation is not presented as a cruel illusion.
It is proclaimed to sinners as a genuine command and promise.

 

[brightfame52]

@hobie :

Hobie,
Your argument rests entirely on human philosophy and an emotional defense of human autonomy, rather than the unalterable eternal framework of Scripture. You claim that sovereign predestination to damnation undermines the goodness of God and makes Him unjust. By doing so, you are putting the Almighty on trial before the bar of human reasoning—the exact error Paul aggressively rebukes in Romans 9.
Let’s dismantle your "two sides of the coin" philosophy and look at the terrifyingly beautiful, absolute sovereignty of God in The Eternal Phase:

I. The Sovereign Right of the Potter (Romans 9:20–24)

You claim that it would be "unjust and unrighteous" for God to predestine anyone to destruction. But your fight is not with Calvinism or Primitive Baptists; your fight is directly with the Apostle Paul. Look at how Holy Scripture explicitly answers your objection in Romans 9:20–23:

"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory..."

Notice the absolute reality of this text:

• God is the Potter, and humanity is the passive, unformed clay.
• The Potter does not look at what the clay does first to decide its fate. Out of the very same lump, by His sovereign decree in the Eternal Phase, He actively fashions some vessels for supreme honor and other vessels explicitly for dishonor.
• The ultimate purpose of the non-elect is to be vessels of wrath fitted to destruction so that God can show His holy wrath and make His power known.

For you to call this "unjust" is to commit the exact sin of verse 20—a miserable piece of creaturely clay talking back to the Master Potter, telling Him what He has the right to create. God is accountable to no one. He creates all things for His own glory, including the wicked for the day of evil (Proverbs 16:4).

II. The Misuse of 2 Peter 3:9

You quote 2 Peter 3:9 ("not willing that any should perish") to claim God wants to save every single human being on earth. You have completely ignored the grammatical context and the audience of the text.

• Look at who Peter is writing to in verse 9: He says the Lord is "longsuffering to us-ward." Who is the "us-ward"?
• Turn to 1 Peter 1:1-2 and 2 Peter 1:1. Peter is writing explicitly to the elect—those who have obtained like precious faith.

The text is saying that God is not slack concerning His promise, but is longsuffering toward His elect, because He is not willing that any of them should perish, but that all of them must come to repentance in the Practical Phase. The timeline of the final judgment is held back until every single sheep bought in the Legal Phase (33 AD) is vitally quickened by the Spirit. If God willed every single individual without exception to be saved, and yet millions perish in hell, then your god is a defeated, frustrated deity who cannot accomplish his own will.

III. The "All Men" Delusion in 1 Timothy 2:1-6

You point to 1 Timothy 2:4 ("Who will have all men to be saved") to argue for universal conditionalism. But in the Greek and in English context, "all men" does not mean every single individual scratch-off on the planet; it means all kinds or classes of men.

• In verses 1 and 2, Paul explicitly defines what he means by "all men": He commands prayers to be made for "all men; for kings, and for all that are in authority."
• In the ancient world, Christians thought that pagan rulers and kings could not be saved because they were brutal persecutors. Paul is correcting this category error by saying: pray for kings and authorities, because God saves "all men"—meaning all ranks, nationalities, and classes of people, high and low alike.

Furthermore, look at verse 6: Christ gave Himself a "ransom for all." If Christ paid a legal ransom for every single individual without exception in The Legal Phase (33 AD), then God’s justice demands that every single individual must go to heaven! God cannot legally collect a ransom payment from Jesus Christ on the cross, and then demand payment a second time from a sinner in hellfire. That would make God an unjust judge who collects double-jeopardy.

Conclusion

Your theology tries to protect God’s "goodness" by stripping Him of His absolute sovereignty. You want a god who stands at the gates of heaven, wringing his hands, hoping that human free will won't frustrate his plans.

But the Bible declares a supreme, sovereign God who does according to His will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth (Daniel 4:35). He predestined His elect to the praise of His glorious grace, and He sovereignly ordained the reprobate to manifest His absolute, terrifying justice. Salvation is not a human choice; it is a sovereign, eternal purpose!