Do believe enough?

[Pedrito]

The reference was initially placed on the incorrect line.

It was corrected prior to Pedrito's seeing Lämmchen's post.

Apologies.

 

[Pedrito]

Post #20 on Page 2:

The verse you gave to back up your claim about "true dedication"...

"Claim"? … "about "true dedication""?

Pedrito sees that he has been labouring under yet another misapprehension.

To think that for all those years, Pedrito thought that what the Wonderful God of Creation and Salvation wanted of His redeemed people, was true dedication to Him.

How wrong one can be!

But it looks like Pedrito will be (willingly) stuck with doing that until he identifies what he should be doing instead.

 

[Lamb]

True dedication is not a requirement to receive salvation. It's not about what WE do but what the Savior has done. All requirements are met by Him. We are given faith to believe this good news. Even remaining in faith is given to us by the Spirit, not of ourselves.

 

[MoreCoffee]

This thread was mainly about believing "enough" to receive healing/blessings/gifts from God rather than believing enough for salvation. The "prosperity gospel" is chiefly concerned with material blessings in this life here on Earth. Salvation is "kindergarten" while "spiritual blessings" are the "meat" for mature believers.

 

[Cassia]

One of the names of God is that He does provide ... OT was more material blessings while I commented previously that material blessings in the new testament appear to be incentives to those weak in faith who don't see the invisable blessings.

In the Book of Genesis, Jehovah-jireh or Yahweh Yireh (Jehovah/Yahweh will provide) was a place in the land of Moriah. It was the location of the binding of Isaac, where God told Abraham to offer his son Isaac as a burnt offering.

 

[tango]

This thread was mainly about believing "enough" to receive healing/blessings/gifts from God rather than believing enough for salvation. The "prosperity gospel" is chiefly concerned with material blessings in this life here on Earth. Salvation is "kindergarten" while "spiritual blessings" are the "meat" for mature believers.

I remember one church I attended for a short time that was massively bound up in what can only be described as cognitive dissonance (or plain outright denial).

One particular individual was diagnosed with a nasty disease (I forget if it was cancer or something broadly similar, but required ongoing treatment). He insisted that he believed he was healed but continued to visit the doctor, thereby indicating he didn't believe he was healed. After all, if he was healed he wouldn't need to go to the doctor.

The same church wrenched Job 22:28 out of context and used it to claim that they could declare things and they would come to pass. They spent much time "breaking curses" (but could never say what specifically it did or how it changed anything), they had a passion for repenting for past sins (sins committed hundreds of years ago, that they had no part in committing), and endlessly declared that better things were just around the corner. Yet at the same time the church remained perpetually needy, the endless ramblings from the profits prophets they followed never came to pass (yet the endless failures apparently never accumulated to a trigger to stop following the obvious false prophets), and despite declaring themselves prosperous were unable to pay the bills.

Their solution to everything seemed to be little more than to declare something again but with added faith. Last I heard an already diminishing congregation had split in two for reasons unknown, although from what little information I have it sounds like both parts are following similarly unproductive paths.

Fundamentally the issue was that they were seeking a blind faith, rather than a qualified faith. If I stand on the bridge once and see it supports me, I have faith it will support me a second time. If I see a truck drive over the bridge I have faith it will take my weight as I walk across. If I see a rickety old bridge over the river that clearly won't support me but insist that I believe it will, chances are I'm going to be getting wet however strongly I believe in that bridge.

 

[Lamb]

This thread was mainly about believing "enough" to receive healing/blessings/gifts from God rather than believing enough for salvation. The "prosperity gospel" is chiefly concerned with material blessings in this life here on Earth. Salvation is "kindergarten" while "spiritual blessings" are the "meat" for mature believers.

I don't see how there would be a difference between the two...believing enough for salvation or blessings. It's not our belief that adds to getting something. It's God's doing and how He wants to go about doing things.

 

[psalms 91]

The key that most seem to ignore or miss is prayer to determine what Gods will is in any given situation and having an open line of communication where you can hear the Holy Spirit and then we can pray effectively and efficently for that to be accomplished in our lives, this includes prosperity or the lack thereof and everything else we want to ask God for, He will only grant that which will further our purpose in His plan for us, He does not reward greed or selfishness.

 

[Pedrito]

Post #23 on Page 3:

True dedication is not a requirement to receive salvation. It's not about what WE do but what the Savior has done. All requirements are met by Him.

Pedrito wonders why those statements were made.

Pedrito did not state anywhere that true dedication is “a requirement to receive salvation”.

Exactly the opposite in fact.

As previously pointed out by the Poster of Post #23 (in Post # 20 0n Page 2), the verse located above above 1 Corinthians 3:12,13: (“12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.” which pictorially describes levels of dedication) says: 1 Corinthians 3:11: “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” That corresponds to points 1 and 2 in Pedrito's list in Post #19 on Page 2:

“1. God extends an offer to sinful individuals.

2. Some respond to that offer.”

==============================================================================================

And as for:

We are given faith to believe this good news. Even remaining in faith is given to us by the Spirit, not of ourselves.

It has been pointed out elsewhere that the original Greek of 2 Corinthians 2:8 (the verse on which the first sentence of that quote is based) does not support that interpretation. And the second sentence absolves believers from the very personal responsibility that Paul makes plain in 1 Corinthians 3:14-15:
“14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

Did not the Apostle Paul say (aside from the wood-hay-stubble-etc.):

Philippians 3:14: “I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.”

and just prior to that:

Philippians 3:1: “If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.”

 

[MoreCoffee]

I don't see how there would be a difference between the two...believing enough for salvation or blessings. It's not our belief that adds to getting something. It's God's doing and how He wants to go about doing things.

"prosperity gospel" people that I've known assert that if you do not receive healing (or avoid disease altogether) it is because you have insufficient faith.