Did Europeans steal the land from the natives?

[Lees]

So first your explanation was that Jeremiah was referring to a time before the animal sacrificial system was supposedly commanded, and now it's a big generalization about Jeremiah's "whole point". Gotcha.

Btw, for the discerning reader, Jesus quotes a passage from this chapter of Jeremiah, and he does so in the Temple as he drives out those selling animals for sacrifice.


I know you have to believe this stuff because otherwise you have no salvation. The wording is clear to me, but that's only because I took off my Paul-glasses a long time ago. To you, it must be interpreted through Sheol/Paul's teaching, however reaching that may be when reading the passages in their context.

As an aside, it seems important to you for other reasons. Perhaps you are guilty of murder (of man). That's just a suggestion (not an accusation) based on your attitude (ie: "this is war", imputed righteousness is the only righteousness etc) justifying whatever attrocities happened during the colonization of America seems like it's nothing to you. I mean, at least the government gave the Indians some reservations. Perhaps they were being too generous and because "this is war" and imputed righteousness is the only righteousness, the colonists should have slaughtered them all?


By just believing in blood sacrifice? It's not a matter of like or dislike, I just don't believe it. What I don't like, is the wholesale denial of Christ's teachings that it is used to replace. Repent? What for? Forgive your brother? What for? Just sin away, lad, hold that "might makes right" attitude be it for oneself or one's country, nod in grim satisfaction at the slaughter of other people and other nations...but it'll be all good in the end because you believe in Christ's atonement. Just go and slap Christ in the face when he tells you to repent or follow the commandments! You have something much better! His death!


Oh the mental gymnastics a Paulinite must go through. I remember it well without fondness.

Go back and reread. Plus, when you address something I said about a verse, give the verse. (Jer. 7:22-23) is addressing a time with Israel before the Law and sacrificial system. When he does address the sacrificial system his point is that the sacrifices mean nothing when your heart is not right with God.

Why not give the verses to the 'discerning reader'? And, what is your point with what Jesus said? Jesus was dealing with the same as Jeremiah and Isaiah and all the other prophets. A rebellious house of Israel and/or Judah.

Well, yes of course I believe this stuff. Because I believe it, I want to know what the Bible is saying. You don't believe it. You believe something else. Thus you try and use the Bible and develop your wording that favors your unbelief. Your constant accusation of 'Pauline glasses' is ridiculous. I used nothing but the Old Testament verses. I view Pauls writings as I do the rest of Scripture.

Concerning war, what I said was morality doesn't play a role. And I said later morality is just man's term to define his goodness. The imputed righteousness of God to the believer is different. Now, I have found, regrettably, that many believers today reject the imputed righteousness of God. And many use the same accusations you have made.

It is important to me, the imputed righteousness of Christ, because that is the only thing that will work. Nothing else will work. You can be the best man in the world, but on that day when you stand before God in your righteousness, you fail.

Yes, I know you don't believe it. You don't believe the Bible. And, just because God has created a fail-safe salvation for His people, that does not create the attitude in them that you describe. That is your attitude.

It's not Paul. It is the Bible you despise.

Lees