Cratonavis Zhui and LCMS

[Faith]

Here’s an article from AIG. I just saw a podcast on Creation.com last night where two scientists said that there are no missing links but then I ran across this today. Missing link or not?

I know we’ve discussed evolution ad nauseam and you probably think this is an extension of that same conversation. I guess it is but after all you’ve told me I was wondering if since this discovery sounds so promising what will the LCMS have to say about it If birds definitely did evolve from dinosaurs?

Cratonavis zhui: A Dinosaur-like Bird?​

Cratonavis zhui is an alleged link between dinosaurs and birds.

 

[Faith]

Anyone?

 

[Messy]

-

 

[Josiah]

@Faith

Again...

The doctrine of the LCMS is all found in the Book of Concord of 1580. That IS the LCMS position, It's all right there in black and white. I strongly suggest you buy this book (it's also available for free online). Then you'll KNOW (exact;y, verbatim) what is LCMS doctrine on stuff. It's ALL right there, in black-and-white.

As a layperson, IF you chose to join an LCMS church, IF you chose to be Confirmed, you will not be asked to know or agree with everything in that book (your pastor is, you are not). ONE SMALL part of that book applies to non-clergy. the section that is "The Small Catechism of Martin Luther." You will be asked if you agree with THAT and you may be required to teach and express doctrine that agrees with that (say if you teach Sunday School).

You will find that the 3 million or so LCMS folks have opinions about things not found in Luther's Small Catechism, opinions about foods, politics, cars, science, history and pretty much everything else. But all these opinions is not necessarily dogma in the LCMS if it's not stated in the Book of Concord and not relevant to your membership in the LCMS if it is not found in Luther's Small Catechism. Although it's POSSIBLE a given parish may ask for a particular stance to be taught if you are representing the parish in some official capacity (say as a Sunday School teacher, youth leader or adult Bible study leader for the church). MAY. May not.


I personally feel you would be far better to frame your questions/issues not as an LCMS question or in the denominational forums. If they are science questions, they might be better in other forums.


A blessed Easter season....


- Josiah



.

 

[tango]

Anyone?

Honestly, when you ask specifically for the LCMS position on something you exclude a lot of posters here. With respect, you'd be better off seeking what is true rather than what one denomination believes to be true. If all you seek is what your preferred denomination believes, how will you know if your denomination is wrong about something?

 

[Faith]

Honestly, when you ask specifically for the LCMS position on something you exclude a lot of posters here. With respect, you'd be better off seeking what is true rather than what one denomination believes to be true. If all you seek is what your preferred denomination believes, how will you know if your denomination is wrong about something?

True

 

[Faith]

@Faith

Again...

The doctrine of the LCMS is all found in the Book of Concord of 1580. That IS the LCMS position, It's all right there in black and white. I strongly suggest you buy this book (it's also available for free online). Then you'll KNOW (exact;y, verbatim) what is LCMS doctrine on stuff. It's ALL right there, in black-and-white.

As a layperson, IF you chose to join an LCMS church, IF you chose to be Confirmed, you will not be asked to know or agree with everything in that book (your pastor is, you are not). ONE SMALL part of that book applies to non-clergy. the section that is "The Small Catechism of Martin Luther." You will be asked if you agree with THAT and you may be required to teach and express doctrine that agrees with that (say if you teach Sunday School).

You will find that the 3 million or so LCMS folks have opinions about things not found in Luther's Small Catechism, opinions about foods, politics, cars, science, history and pretty much everything else. But all these opinions is not necessarily dogma in the LCMS if it's not stated in the Book of Concord and not relevant to your membership in the LCMS if it is not found in Luther's Small Catechism. Although it's POSSIBLE a given parish may ask for a particular stance to be taught if you are representing the parish in some official capacity (say as a Sunday School teacher, youth leader or adult Bible study leader for the church). MAY. May not.


I personally feel you would be far better to frame your questions/issues not as an LCMS question or in the denominational forums. If they are science questions, they might be better in other forums.


A blessed Easter season....


- Josiah



.

 

[Faith]

@Faith

Again...

The doctrine of the LCMS is all found in the Book of Concord of 1580. That IS the LCMS position, It's all right there in black and white. I strongly suggest you buy this book (it's also available for free online). Then you'll KNOW (exact;y, verbatim) what is LCMS doctrine on stuff. It's ALL right there, in black-and-white.

As a layperson, IF you chose to join an LCMS church, IF you chose to be Confirmed, you will not be asked to know or agree with everything in that book (your pastor is, you are not). ONE SMALL part of that book applies to non-clergy. the section that is "The Small Catechism of Martin Luther." You will be asked if you agree with THAT and you may be required to teach and express doctrine that agrees with that (say if you teach Sunday School).

You will find that the 3 million or so LCMS folks have opinions about things not found in Luther's Small Catechism, opinions about foods, politics, cars, science, history and pretty much everything else. But all these opinions is not necessarily dogma in the LCMS if it's not stated in the Book of Concord and not relevant to your membership in the LCMS if it is not found in Luther's Small Catechism. Although it's POSSIBLE a given parish may ask for a particular stance to be taught if you are representing the parish in some official capacity (say as a Sunday School teacher, youth leader or adult Bible study leader for the church). MAY. May not.


I personally feel you would be far better to frame your questions/issues not as an LCMS question or in the denominational forums. If they are science questions, they might be better in other forums.


A blessed Easter season....


- Josiah



.

I don’t have the Book of Concord but I do have Luther’s Small Catechism with Explanation. And I found the Book of Concord online but am unsure which exact part I’m supposed to be agreeing with. The part that says The Small Catechism? Bc I don’t see The Small Catechism of Martin Luther.

 

[Messy]

I don’t have the Book of Concord but I do have Luther’s Small Catechism with Explanation. And I found the Book of Concord online but am unsure which exact part I’m supposed to be agreeing with. The part that says The Small Catechism? Bc I don’t see The Small Catechism of Martin Luther.

Just Google the name and free ebook and you get this:

Luther's Little Instruction Book: The Small Catechism of Martin Luther by Luther

Free kindle book and epub digitized and proofread by volunteers.

www.gutenberg.org

There are no chicken dinosaurs in it.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[Faith]

The Project Gutenberg eBook of Luther's Little Instruction Book: The Small Catechism of Martin Luther​

Is this, above, what I’m supposed to be reading? Where it says the Ten Commandments or what?

 

[Messy]

The Project Gutenberg eBook of Luther's Little Instruction Book: The Small Catechism of Martin Luther​

Is this, above, what I’m supposed to be reading? Where it says the Ten Commandments or what?

Sorry I thought you wanted that small book.

Concerning the six-day creation – The Lutheran Witness

There will always be a struggle between faith and reason. In matters of clear teaching of the Bible, however, we must hold to the Scriptures.

witness.lcms.org

as Luther said elsewhere regarding Genesis 1: “We assert that Moses spoke in the literal sense, not allegorically or figuratively, i.e., that the world, with all its creatures, was created within six days, as the words read. If we do not comprehend the reason for this, let us remain pupils and leave the job of teacher to the Holy Spirit” (Luther’s Works, vol. 1, page 5).

Brief Statement of LCMS Doctrinal Position - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

A Brief Statement of the Doctrinal Position of The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod.

www.lcms.org

1. We teach that God has created heaven and earth, and that in the manner and in the space of time recorded in the Holy Scriptures, especially Gen. 1 and 2, namely, by His almighty creative word, and in six days. We reject every doctrine which denies or limits the work of creation as taught in Scripture. In our days it is denied or limited by those who assert, ostensibly in deference to science, that the world came into existence through a process of evolution; that is, that it has, in immense periods of time, developed more or less of itself. Since no man was present when it pleased God to create the world, we must look for a reliable account of creation to God's own record, found in God's own book, the Bible. We accept God's own record with full confidence and confess with Luther's Catechism: "I believe that God has made me and all creatures."

 

[Messy]

Here’s an article from AIG. I just saw a podcast on Creation.com last night where two scientists said that there are no missing links but then I ran across this today. Missing link or not?

I know we’ve discussed evolution ad nauseam and you probably think this is an extension of that same conversation. I guess it is but after all you’ve told me I was wondering if since this discovery sounds so promising what will the LCMS have to say about it If birds definitely did evolve from dinosaurs?

Cratonavis zhui: A Dinosaur-like Bird?​

Cratonavis zhui is an alleged link between dinosaurs and birds.

They sound like young earth creationists, so I suppose they don't believe that. They can never prove that. It's a theory. They weren't there. Evolutionists don't believe the flood of Noah happened globally, so they think every earth layer has been laid down in millions or billions of years. First a layer with the small 1 cell animals, then this, then that. Then why are trees smashed through a bunch of layers? The earth was flooded, so the light stuff went to the bottom first. I used to believe old earth evolution, cause I learned that with a study Geography, but now it's just so obvious to me that it's young. Especially because they found dinosaurs with soft tissue and I must believe that's billions of years old? No way.
Also because of DNA stuff.

DNA Trends Confirm Noah's Family

When research biologist Dr. Nathaniel Jeanson plotted hundreds of human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences onto a tree diagram, the project revealed an obvious pattern: The mtDNA stemmed from three central “trunks” or nodes instead of just one. Three trends in Jeanson’s data suggest that the...

www.icr.org

 

[Faith]

I just briefly spoke to my pastor and he doesn’t seem to even entertain the idea that dinosaurs and birds are linked.
Also talked with a friendly acquaintance from my church online and she doesn’t either.

 

[Faith]

They sound like young earth creationists, so I suppose they don't believe that. They can never prove that. It's a theory. They weren't there. Evolutionists don't believe the flood of Noah happened globally, so they think every earth layer has been laid down in millions or billions of years. First a layer with the small 1 cell animals, then this, then that. Then why are trees smashed through a bunch of layers? The earth was flooded, so the light stuff went to the bottom first. I used to believe old earth evolution, cause I learned that with a study Geography, but now it's just so obvious to me that it's young. Especially because they found dinosaurs with soft tissue and I must believe that's billions of years old? No way.
Also because of DNA stuff.

DNA Trends Confirm Noah's Family

When research biologist Dr. Nathaniel Jeanson plotted hundreds of human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences onto a tree diagram, the project revealed an obvious pattern: The mtDNA stemmed from three central “trunks” or nodes instead of just one. Three trends in Jeanson’s data suggest that the...

www.icr.org

They were YEC on the Institute of Creation Research.

 

[Josiah]

I don’t have the Book of Concord but I do have Luther’s Small Catechism with Explanation. And I found the Book of Concord online but am unsure which exact part I’m supposed to be agreeing with. The part that says The Small Catechism? Bc I don’t see The Small Catechism of Martin Luther.

@Faith

Again....

IF you choose to join an LCMS parish... IF you choose to be Confirmed in the LCMS, you will be asked to agree with Luther's Small Catechism (NOT with the "explanation" thereof but the actual part written by Luther). It's here: The Small Catechism

You will NOT be asked to agree with the opinion of any or all LCMS people, any or all LCMS Convention resolutions, any or all CTCR documents. You will be asked if you agree with ONE document: Luther's Small Catechism as in the Book of Concord (which does not include "with explanation"). The Small Catechism Understand?

And IF you read that, you'll see it says nothing about when or how the Earth was formed or when or how humans came to be or whether Trump won the last presidential election or if unicorns were on the ark.

IF you choose to be ordained in the LCMS, you will be asked to agree with all of the Book of Concord (not just the Small Catechism) in a manner acceptable to the LCMS at that time. Also to the policies of the LCMS at that time. But since one of those policies is that the LCMS does not ordain women (it's not doctrine, it's policy)...and since you are a woman... this should be of zero concern to you.

I'm glad you now have the Book of Concord (albeit online). Good. Read the Small Catechism part, it's what applies to you. The Small Catechism THAT is the doctrine of the LCMS that applies to you as a layperson. And THERE you will find the answer to your concerns. I suspect, in most if not all cases, you'll see for yourself that the LCMS simply has no doctrinal position on your issue(s). But you can determine that for yourself.


I join with @tango that you'll find a MUCH more constructive approach in raising your issues not in the denomination forums or directing them to LCMS members but in more general and open forums of CH. If you need help in that, Lamb is available.


- Josiah



.

 

[Faith]

@Faith

Again....

IF you choose to join an LCMS parish... IF you choose to be Confirmed in the LCMS, you will be asked to agree with Luther's Small Catechism (NOT with the "explanation" thereof but the actual part written by Luther). It's here: The Small Catechism

You will NOT be asked to agree with the opinion of any or all LCMS people, any or all LCMS Convention resolutions, any or all CTCR documents. You will be asked if you agree with ONE document: Luther's Small Catechism as in the Book of Concord (which does not include "with explanation"). The Small Catechism Understand?

And IF you read that, you'll see it says nothing about when or how the Earth was formed or when or how humans came to be or whether Trump won the last presidential election or if unicorns were on the ark.

IF you choose to be ordained in the LCMS, you will be asked to agree with all of the Book of Concord (not just the Small Catechism) in a manner acceptable to the LCMS at that time. Also to the policies of the LCMS at that time. But since one of those policies is that the LCMS does not ordain women (it's not doctrine, it's policy)...and since you are a woman... this should be of zero concern to you.

I'm glad you now have the Book of Concord (albeit online). Good. Read the Small Catechism part, it's what applies to you. The Small Catechism THAT is the doctrine of the LCMS that applies to you as a layperson. And THERE you will find the answer to your concerns. I suspect, in most if not all cases, you'll see for yourself that the LCMS simply has no doctrinal position on your issue(s). But you can determine that for yourself.


I join with @tango that you'll find a MUCH more constructive approach in raising your issues not in the denomination forums or directing them to LCMS members but in more general and open forums of CH. If you need help in that, Lamb is available.


- Josiah



.

I believe it was a Lutheran pastor (not LCMS but is VERY knowledgeable on our faith) who posts on another Christian board who suggested that I buy the Small Catechism “With Explanation”.

 

[Faith]

@Faith

Again....

IF you choose to join an LCMS parish... IF you choose to be Confirmed in the LCMS, you will be asked to agree with Luther's Small Catechism (NOT with the "explanation" thereof but the actual part written by Luther). It's here: The Small Catechism

You will NOT be asked to agree with the opinion of any or all LCMS people, any or all LCMS Convention resolutions, any or all CTCR documents. You will be asked if you agree with ONE document: Luther's Small Catechism as in the Book of Concord (which does not include "with explanation"). The Small Catechism Understand?

And IF you read that, you'll see it says nothing about when or how the Earth was formed or when or how humans came to be or whether Trump won the last presidential election or if unicorns were on the ark.

IF you choose to be ordained in the LCMS, you will be asked to agree with all of the Book of Concord (not just the Small Catechism) in a manner acceptable to the LCMS at that time. Also to the policies of the LCMS at that time. But since one of those policies is that the LCMS does not ordain women (it's not doctrine, it's policy)...and since you are a woman... this should be of zero concern to you.

I'm glad you now have the Book of Concord (albeit online). Good. Read the Small Catechism part, it's what applies to you. The Small Catechism THAT is the doctrine of the LCMS that applies to you as a layperson. And THERE you will find the answer to your concerns. I suspect, in most if not all cases, you'll see for yourself that the LCMS simply has no doctrinal position on your issue(s). But you can determine that for yourself.


I join with @tango that you'll find a MUCH more constructive approach in raising your issues not in the denomination forums or directing them to LCMS members but in more general and open forums of CH. If you need help in that, Lamb is available.


- Josiah



.

Whenever I tap on the “clicking here” link it says I’m not connected to the internet.
I tried accessing it a different way but got a message saying that the connection is not private. And that I should go back to the previous page. So, never mind.