Context

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Yes they do. They are both Scripture and ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED AND USEFUL FOR DOCTRINE, REPROOF, CORRECTION, AND INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

But taken out of context and lumped together like some so-called "proof texts" are, they become pretexts.

pre•text​

(ˈpri tɛkst)

n.
1. something put forward to conceal a true purpose or object; ostensible reason; excuse.
2. the misleading appearance or behavior assumed with this intention; subterfuge.
[1505–15; < Latin praetextum pretext, ornament, n. use of neuter past participle of praetexere to edge with, place in front, pretend. See pre-, texture]
Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.

All scripture is inspired even one word

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Yes they do. They are both Scripture and ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED AND USEFUL FOR DOCTRINE, REPROOF, CORRECTION, AND INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

But taken out of context and lumped together like some so-called "proof texts" are, they become pretexts.

pre•text​

(ˈpri tɛkst)

n.
1. something put forward to conceal a true purpose or object; ostensible reason; excuse.
2. the misleading appearance or behavior assumed with this intention; subterfuge.
[1505–15; < Latin praetextum pretext, ornament, n. use of neuter past participle of praetexere to edge with, place in front, pretend. See pre-, texture]
Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.

Context is a tool to deny the faith and negate the word of God

 

[Lamb]

Context is a tool to deny the faith and negate the word of God

You're against knowing context of a verse then?

 

[tango]

Context is a tool to deny the faith and negate the word of God

This is amazing news. I was just looking for a good excuse to go to the pub this evening and found it, right there in Scripture. No less a person than Jesus said it. You know, he said to "go into the world". My local is called The World. It doesn't get much better than Jesus telling me to go to the pub.

Yeah, I know in the wider context it says something else but apparently context is a tool to deny the faith and negate God's word, so nobody gets to tell me any different.

 

[tango]

Eph 5:18 NKJV - ".... be drunk with wine ..."

OK Paul, if you insist. I'll take another refill, thanks. Who cares about context anyway, right?

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

You're against knowing context of a verse then?

Every word is scripture and inspired

what’s the context of Jn 3:5?

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

This is amazing news. I was just looking for a good excuse to go to the pub this evening and found it, right there in Scripture. No less a person than Jesus said it. You know, he said to "go into the world". My local is called The World. It doesn't get much better than Jesus telling me to go to the pub.

Yeah, I know in the wider context it says something else but apparently context is a tool to deny the faith and negate God's word, so nobody gets to tell me any different.

He did not tell you to get drunk
A cold one is ok

 

[tango]

He did not tell you to get drunk
A cold one is ok

But Paul did, as I posted earlier. It's right there in the middle of Eph 5:18 - "... be drunk with wine ...". I'm only following what Paul said. You are the one who said context is "a tool to deny the faith and negate the word of God".

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

But Paul did, as I posted earlier. It's right there in the middle of Eph 5:18 - "... be drunk with wine ...". I'm only following what Paul said. You are the one who said context is "a tool to deny the faith and negate the word of God".

It says not drunk

so what’s the context of Jn 3:5?

 

[tango]

It says not drunk

so what’s the context of Jn 3:5?

You said context was a tool to deny the faith. You don't get to say that and then argue that context is relevant. It's either relevant or it's a tool to deny the faith. Which is it?

If it's not relevant, Paul very clearly says to be drunk with wine.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

You said context was a tool to deny the faith. You don't get to say that and then argue that context is relevant. It's either relevant or it's a tool to deny the faith. Which is it?

If it's not relevant, Paul very clearly says to be drunk with wine.

Incomplete scripture is not context

what’s the context of Jn 3:5 in your understanding?

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

You said context was a tool to deny the faith. You don't get to say that and then argue that context is relevant. It's either relevant or it's a tool to deny the faith. Which is it?

If it's not relevant, Paul very clearly says to be drunk with wine.

No context makes you catholic
Context makes you Protestant?
So Protestants are adding to scripture

we don’t believe the false doctrine of “the Bible alone”

the rule of faith for Christians or the source of truth is Christ and his holy church

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13
Truth must be revealed by God, and taught by the church, proposed for our belief, we must be instructed!
Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 Lk 10:16 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42


Nature of doctrine:

Truth or doctrine MUST be Revealed by God And Proposed by the church for belief, not spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
Claim: “scripture alone”
It’s really just the ugly repugnant pride!
It’s no faith at all only spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
They Hope in creatures not in God!

It is unlawful to refuse to accept a truth revealed by God!

Matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Truth matters! It is revealed by God and therefore CANNOT be changed!
The church likewise is founded by Christ and therefore CANNOT be reformed!

Faith hope and charity! 1 cor 13:13
Three are eternal, and the greatest is charity!
“Faith alone”? Never faith, hope, & charity are inseparable!
If salvation was by faith alone then the greatest would be faith, but as even “all faith“ without charity avails nothing! 1 cor 13:2

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

True Christians do not act from
Pride, presumption, and arrogance!

Private judgement!

Personal interpretation!

I decide truth for myself!

These are NOT Christian virtues!

This is NOT faith!

 

[tango]

Incomplete scripture is not context

So is context relevant or not? A simple yes or no answer will do just fine.

what’s the context of Jn 3:5 in your understanding?

You said context is a tool to deny the faith so I'm not sure why you're even asking that.

 

[tango]

No context makes you catholic
Context makes you Protestant?
So Protestants are adding to scripture

we don’t believe the false doctrine of “the Bible alone”

the rule of faith for Christians or the source of truth is Christ and his holy church

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13
Truth must be revealed by God, and taught by the church, proposed for our belief, we must be instructed!
Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 Lk 10:16 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42


Nature of doctrine:

Truth or doctrine MUST be Revealed by God And Proposed by the church for belief, not spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
Claim: “scripture alone”
It’s really just the ugly repugnant pride!
It’s no faith at all only spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
They Hope in creatures not in God!

It is unlawful to refuse to accept a truth revealed by God!

Matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Truth matters! It is revealed by God and therefore CANNOT be changed!
The church likewise is founded by Christ and therefore CANNOT be reformed!

Faith hope and charity! 1 cor 13:13
Three are eternal, and the greatest is charity!
“Faith alone”? Never faith, hope, & charity are inseparable!
If salvation was by faith alone then the greatest would be faith, but as even “all faith“ without charity avails nothing! 1 cor 13:2

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

True Christians do not act from
Pride, presumption, and arrogance!

Private judgement!

Personal interpretation!

I decide truth for myself!

These are NOT Christian virtues!

This is NOT faith!

Lots of words but precious little useful information here, other than a sense that "the church" (whatever that means today) can come up with an idea and declare it to be truth even if it has no backing whatsoever in Scripture. How would you differentiate between "the truth" as allegedly revealed to your preferred church and "the truth" as allegedly revealed to, say, Joseph Smith or even Anton LaVey? Does truth vary between denominations or - horror - is there a chance that imperfect men get things wrong? If so I'd rather not blindly follow the proclamations of any man.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

So is context relevant or not? A simple yes or no answer will do just fine.



You said context is a tool to deny the faith so I'm not sure why you're even asking that.

All scripture is inspired even one word

Im not convinced there is such a thing as context

I am the way the truth and the life jn 14:6
No context can change that

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Not you’re traditions of men the authority of the apostles

Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) holy mother church replaced Israel Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

 

[tango]

Lots of words that have precious little to do with the subject of context. You used an awful lot of words to avoid a one-word answer.

 

[NathanH83]

I’ve noticed that most Scriptures that people quote were meant for those in Biblical times, yet people quote them as if they were written for us. Isn’t that taking the Scripture out of context? We view the Scriptures as if God was talking to us, when he was actually speaking to whomever is in the Bible.

I think it’s both in many cases. It has to be understood as to who is speaking to who. But it can also be understood prophetically, in the sense that God is speaking to us today. But every example is a different example.

I’ve heard a lot of Hebrew Roots people say that the 400 years of slavery in Genesis 15 is not referring to the Israelites, but to Africans in America. They say it refers to 1619 when slaves were brought to Virginia, and ends in 2019.

Ok? Well, slavery wasn’t ended in 2019. It was ended in 1865, so that makes no sense.

There’s a lot of ways that scripture can be taken out of context.

 

[Katt5.56]

Taking scripture out of context can be so dangerous. Most of the people who fall into false doctrines back it up using misquoted and uncontextualized scripture. It turns The Word into a magic eight ball. I recently met a man who used scripture to advocate for mysticism. It's human nature to see what we want.

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