Completely legalizing marijuana

Albion

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
7,476
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Yes, it's more popular because studies have revealed it's medical benefits and reduced harms compared to other substances. Plus we have widespread internet use, which was not around (at least for the average person) when I was a teen/young adult.
In your opinion, that's the reason many more people today smoke and eat MJ than did in earlier years, huh? Because of its "medical benefits" and "reduced harm?" :rolleyes:

Anyway, there's no point in debating the "other" possible uses of the drug as though the explosion of MJ use for purely "recreational" reasons, along with the dangers involved, isn't important enough to address. That debate would be similar to arguing that drinking water filled with lead isn't an issue worth talking about simply because lead can also be used for a lot of other purposes that society appreciates.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
In your opinion, that's the reason many more people today smoke and eat MJ than did in earlier years, huh? Because of its "medical benefits" and "reduced harm?" :rolleyes:

Wow. At this point I honestly have to ask if you've done any research into the medical benefits of Cannabis at all, or if you are one of those people that is just mentally living in the Nixon/Reagan/Carter eras, including all the propaganda that came out during that time.

Cannabis is not dangerous. In terms of medicinal benefits, it actually has many, and has saved lives and $$ for the average person who would otherwise be shelling out that money for pharma drugs, suffering the side effects of those pharma drugs, and often being killed by those pharma drugs. Why is it, that you, as a Christian don't think this is a good thing? Or do you think that is all made up because you are willfully ignorant of these medical benefits and instead focus on some people that may have questionable needs that get a medical MJ card? Why do you care? Oh wait - the "dangers"...
Anyway, there's no point in debating the "other" possible uses of the drug as though the explosion of MJ use for purely "recreational" reasons, along with the dangers involved, isn't important enough to address. That debate would be similar to arguing that drinking water filled with lead isn't an issue worth talking about simply because lead can also be used for a lot of other purposes that society appreciates.

Look, obviously anything can be abused. People can die from abusing super caffeinated energy drinks/powders. Here's one: Personal trainer dies from caffeine overdose after accidentally drinking the equivalent of 200 cups of coffee, reports say

Were you up in arms over caffeine when stuff like this happened? Were you exercising your moral outrage? Or perhaps it was just that
it wasn't making it to the Television on a regular basis? Answer honestly.

Every single year, people die and others are seriously harmed by LEGAL alcohol and pharmaceutical drugs. These statistical deaths and injuries are not plastered on prime time Corporate Television. But they are real. Corporate TV isn't interested in them. You know why, right? I mean, I'm trying to give you some credit here.
 

Albion

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
7,476
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Wow. At this point I honestly have to ask if you've done any research into the medical benefits of Cannabis at all, or if you are one of those people that is just mentally living in the Nixon/Reagan/Carter eras, including all the propaganda that came out during that time.
Settle down and keep in mind my actual position on this matter. Much of what you have pointed to I agree with. My point, however, is that this issue is not unlike many others that society has had to grapple with.

We cannot simply ignore the dangers because we approve of the benefits. And in this case, the dangers far outweigh the benefits, yet you won't even consider that fact but have instead spent a number of replies refusing to even weigh the two.
Look, obviously anything can be abused. People can die from abusing super caffeinated energy drinks/powders. Here's one: Personal trainer dies from caffeine overdose after accidentally drinking the equivalent of 200 cups of coffee, reports say

If those drinks had resulted in a large number of fatalities, I am confident that the dangers of caffein to people in general would have resulted in some action having been taken. But you have cited a very rare event, so of course society has not felt that "something needs to be done."

Drug use is epidemic and has cost many lives, not just one here or there under unusual circumstances, and that's why it has been regulated.

This is not a complicated issue.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
If those drinks had resulted in a large number of fatalities, I am confident that the dangers of caffein to people in general would have resulted in some action having been taken. But you have cited a very rare event, so of course society has not felt that "something needs to be done."

Where's the "large number of fatalities" from Cannabis? C'mon site me some comparative statistics between alcohol, caffeine, pharma drugs (don't neglect this, it's a huge one), and cannabis. Tell me you actually have data and weren't swayed by a recent spate of "news" pieces on Television about a few people who were irresponsible with their infused gummies and so forth. Let's see the hard data.
Drug use is epidemic and has cost many lives, not just one here or there under unusual circumstances, and that's why it has been regulated.

This is not a complicated issue.

If you honestly think Cannabis was ever regulated to "save the public from danger" I have to believe you are little bit naive. A plant with this many uses is targeted for reasons that have to do with monopoly and power. Does society at large use Cannabis clothing? No. Do they at large use Cannabis textiles? No. Do they derive fuel from Cannabis? No. Do they see Cannabis commercials? No, but they see alcohol commercials. Do they watch Television ads for either Cannabis or other herbs that help medical issues? Well, no, surprise surprise. They see lots of pharma commercials though. I still remember how saturated US television was with pharma advertising when I lived there. It was epidemic then.
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
31,452
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Where's the "large number of fatalities" from Cannabis? C'mon site me some comparative statistics between alcohol, caffeine, pharma drugs (don't neglect this, it's a huge one), and cannabis. Tell me you actually have data and weren't swayed by a recent spate of "news" pieces on Television about a few people who were irresponsible with their infused gummies and so forth. Let's see the hard data.


If you honestly think Cannabis was ever regulated to "save the public from danger" I have to believe you are little bit naive. A plant with this many uses is targeted for reasons that have to do with monopoly and power. Does society at large use Cannabis clothing? No. Do they at large use Cannabis textiles? No. Do they derive fuel from Cannabis? No. Do they see Cannabis commercials? No, but they see alcohol commercials. Do they watch Television ads for either Cannabis or other herbs that help medical issues? Well, no, surprise surprise. They see lots of pharma commercials though. I still remember how saturated US television was with pharma advertising when I lived there. It was epidemic then.

Here's an article that talks about lung damage from smoking it:

 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Here's an article that talks about lung damage from smoking it:


I used to smoke it daily in High School (for more than a year!) and never developed breathing problems.

That being said, I did ask for statistical analysis of deaths/injury between Cannabis and several widely used substances. The fact that smoking any plant material can be potentially harmful longer term is sort of a red herring.

I'm on cannabis right now. I didn't smoke any. I took some of my tincture and am enjoying a mild CBD anti-inflammatory body high.
 

Messy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2023
Messages
1,553
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
So what? Can't people decide for themselves what they want to ingest?
Kids, teens, psychiatric patients? There's such a war on cigarettes now in Holland, but teens can go to the coffeeshop and buy pot. With corona, cigarette shops had to close, restaurants, non essential shops, coffeeshops. They protested. Okay the coffeeshops may stay open for ppl to get pot. There are villages here where almost all teens were on pot or other stuff. Why not legalise cocain too, heroin.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Kids, teens, psychiatric patients? There's such a war on cigarettes now in Holland, but teens can go to the coffeeshop and buy pot. With corona, cigarette shops had to close, restaurants, non essential shops, coffeeshops. They protested. Okay the coffeeshops may stay open for ppl to get pot. There are villages here where almost all teens were on pot or other stuff. Why not legalise cocain too, heroin.
(Emphasis mine)

I actually don't think cocaine should be illegal because it is not physically addictive (whereas heroin is, and should be illegal for this reason, as well as it being dangerous), but in classing them all together, which is a common argument, I wonder if you have ever abused them?

Because if you did you would know there is an ocean of difference between them in terms of abuse and effects. The two you mentioned will ruin a human body if abused. It doesn't even have to be chronic abuse over long periods. I know because I've abused both and know what it is like the next day.
 

Albion

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
7,476
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Kids, teens, psychiatric patients? There's such a war on cigarettes now in Holland, but teens can go to the coffeeshop and buy pot.
Approximately the same in most of the USA (although I think only adults can buy from dispensaries), and that situation makes no sense as a policy.
 

Messy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2023
Messages
1,553
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
(Emphasis mine)

I actually don't think cocaine should be illegal because it is not physically addictive (whereas heroin is, and should be illegal for this reason, as well as it being dangerous), but in classing them all together, which is a common argument, I wonder if you have ever abused them?

Because if you did you would know there is an ocean of difference between them in terms of abuse and effects. The two you mentioned will ruin a human body if abused. It doesn't even have to be chronic abuse over long periods. I know because I've abused both and know what it is like the next day.
They now want to make XTC legal. I'm glad I threw up from pot. Else I could have become addicted to it. An ex was on pot. I said: Why don't you stop? It's bad for you. He said: You take 8 oxazepam a day and I take 6 joints. What's the difference? They make oxazepam from opium and you can get it on the black market. Looked it up lately, but I can't find that. I think he just made it up, but I was like: Aaaaaah! Drugs! And I immediately threw it away. Now finally after years I could stop with nicotin chewing gum. I wish they just had forbidden that stuff, at least for teens and psychiatric patients.
 

Messy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2023
Messages
1,553
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Approximately the same in most of the USA (although I think only adults can buy from dispensaries), and that situation makes no sense as a policy.
My nephews were addicted to pot for years. They started as teens. Sister and BIL were like: oh what does it matter. It's just pot. One nephew didn't go to school anymore, didn't do a thing with his his life. Oh. Hmm. It's addictive. No really? Now he quit luckily.
 

DerekVendel

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2023
Messages
1
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I think completely legalizing marijuana would be a great move. It's been proven to have medical benefits and it's also much safer than alcohol or tobacco. Plus, it could create a ton of new jobs and bring in a lot of tax revenue. As long as there are regulations in place to keep it out of the hands of minors and prevent people from driving under the influence, I think it could be a positive thing. And hey, if it means fewer people reaching for pharmaceuticals and more people using natural remedies like CBD, that's even better. Check out this article on the benefits of CBD: Here's What Makes This 200-Year-Old Heirloom The Best CBD For Relief | mindbodygreen. There is a lot to consider.
 
Last edited:

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
31,452
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I think completely legalizing marijuana would be a great move. It's been proven to have medical benefits and it's also much safer than alcohol or tobacco. Plus, it could create a ton of new jobs and bring in a lot of tax revenue. As long as there are regulations in place to keep it out of the hands of minors and prevent people from driving under the influence, I think it could be a positive thing.

It's legal in some states for both recreational and medicinal usage. Are you worried about longtime side effects? My husband and I each have a friend who is a long timer user and their reaction has slowed to that of the elderly and their long term memory is awful.
 

Albion

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
7,476
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I think completely legalizing marijuana would be a great move. It's been proven to have medical benefits and it's also much safer than alcohol or tobacco. Plus, it could create a ton of new jobs and bring in a lot of tax revenue. As long as there are regulations in place to keep it out of the hands of minors and prevent people from driving under the influence, I think it could be a positive thing.
Could be. However, as soon as marijuana is generally accepted and legal (and we're almost there now), that will be the moment when those who campaigned for legalized MJ will begin campaigning for legalized cocaine and heroin, and then that there be no restraints on any dangerous drug.

It's already beginning, as a matter of fact, and 100,000+ deaths in the USA annually from Fentanyl, mainly accidental, attest to it.
 
Last edited:

Messy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2023
Messages
1,553
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I think completely legalizing marijuana would be a great move. It's been proven to have medical benefits and it's also much safer than alcohol or tobacco. Plus, it could create a ton of new jobs and bring in a lot of tax revenue. As long as there are regulations in place to keep it out of the hands of minors and prevent people from driving under the influence, I think it could be a positive thing.
A ton of new jobs? It's tolerated in Holland. Yes it did create new jobs maybe to sell it and loads of ppl need help to get rid of it again.


The number of people in treatment rose from 6,155 in 2006 to 11,246 people in 2011. It then fell slightly in 2012, rose again in 2013 and 2014, and fell again in 2015 to 10,816. After alcohol, cannabis is the most common problem in addiction care.

Craziest thing was that in 2020 the "coffee" shops also had to close, like all other non essential shops, but ppl complained, so they could stay open.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
13,979
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I can't help thinking that long term side effects are ultimately the responsibility of an adult who chooses to use a particular product, whatever the nature of that product.

If we're going to start outlawing things on the basis they may harm a person who uses them entirely voluntarily, where does it stop? The long term effects of obesity and diabetes are well known - should be be prohibiting adults from eating too much sugar and saturated fat? It seems to me that it's easier to make a case for banning chemically modified garbage in our foods than to make a case for banning a plant.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
13,979
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Could be. However, as soon as marijuana is generally accepted and legal (and we're almost there now), that will be the moment when those who campaigned for legalized MJ will begin campaigning for legalized cocaine and heroin, and then that there be no restraints on any dangerous drug.

It's already beginning, as a matter of fact, and 100,000+ deaths in the USA annually from Fentanyl, mainly accidental, attest to it.

How many of the fentanyl deaths are from people who didn't know they were taking fentanyl?

Illegal drug dealers have an interest in cutting an illegal product to make more money. It's not as if a drug user can report their dealer to trading standards if it turned out what they bought was cut with fentanyl, flour, chalk, battery acid. If you could buy cocaine over the counter at your local pharmacy the purity of it could be guaranteed. You'd know that you had exactly one gram of cocaine, rather than knowing you had one gram of, well, something that some guy on a street corner sold.

I knew a guy who died of an overdose. He had been an on-again-off-again user of heroin for some years, had been clean for a time, and then briefly relapsed. He'd been using for long enough it's hard to imagine him not having a good idea of how much to use at a time. When his body was found the autopsy found enough fentanyl to drop a horse. Nobody can know for sure, but I'd bet he thought he was using heroin and didn't know what else was in it.
 

Messy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2023
Messages
1,553
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I can't help thinking that long term side effects are ultimately the responsibility of an adult who chooses to use a particular product, whatever the nature of that product.

If we're going to start outlawing things on the basis they may harm a person who uses them entirely voluntarily, where does it stop? The long term effects of obesity and diabetes are well known - should be be prohibiting adults from eating too much sugar and saturated fat? It seems to me that it's easier to make a case for banning chemically modified garbage in our foods than to make a case for banning a plant.
You even have to pay a fine if you don't wear a helmet on a moped. I think it would be good to protect people. I had a 16 y o boy at my door, in the time I was living together with a guy who smoked pot and we lived 10 or 20 meter from the"coffee" shop, so this boy saw him go there and ringed the door bell. Hello mrs. Can you get me some pot? They have to be 18, but 16 year olds use pot. A boy from my son's christian school, 14 or 15, was smoking pot. Now his parents don't trust him anymore. Someone said that loads of teens from the village he grew up in, used some sort of drug. In my time, 80s, we had only 5 teens from the whole school who used pot.
 

Albion

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
7,476
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
How many of the fentanyl deaths are from people who didn't know they were taking fentanyl?
Not sure. A significant percentage, from what I gather from the news media. Because only a tiny amount of that substance can be fatal, and this isn't always known by the user, overdoses must account for many as well.

However, that is as much a part of throwing the nation's borders and the laws open to drug use as repealing jail sentences for possession of a tiny amount of pot (which change many people would think appropriate).

And other similar consequences would include accidental poisonings from drugs disguised as candy and--getting back to the fentanyl issue--ingesting a drug that has been cut or adulterated with fentanyl.

One thing necessarily leads to another that isn't so terrific.

I knew a guy who died of an overdose. He had been an on-again-off-again user of heroin for some years, had been clean for a time, and then briefly relapsed. He'd been using for long enough it's hard to imagine him not having a good idea of how much to use at a time. When his body was found the autopsy found enough fentanyl to drop a horse. Nobody can know for sure, but I'd bet he thought he was using heroin and didn't know what else was in it.
 

Ammi

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 1, 2023
Messages
221
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I think that if cannabis can be used for pain instead of opioids, that is a good thing. In my country, cannabis is legal. Since it became so, opioid overdose deaths have declined substantially. I wish that drugs were only used for medical reasons, but I guess that's wishful thinking.
 
Top Bottom