Come on, be objective, honest, and admit that Matthew 16:18 is about saint Peter.

[Lanman87]

And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. (Matthew 28:16-20 DRB)

Is this descriptive?

No, it is prescriptive. Most translations do not say "going", it says "Go"

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[b] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” ESV

19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, NASB

19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

This is a call to proclaim the Gospel message and teach the implications of the Gospel on our lives. While the words of Christ were specifically to the 11 apostles we see elsewhere in the New Testament where others are following the same call.

4 Now those who were scattered went from place to place, proclaiming the word. Acts 8:4

Paul tells the church at Corinth that they (the congregation) has the ministry of reconciliation

All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:18-20, NIV).

We see that God has given gifts to individuals to proclaim the Gospel, to equip all of us for the work of ministry, and to build up the body of Christ.

11 The gifts he gave were that some would be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, Eph 4:11

So while the Holy Spirit calls and gifts some for specific functions and leadership we are all capable and called to share the gospel in both word and deed. We are all "priest" and have direct access to the "Throne of Grace" and are all given spiritual gifts (Romans 12:3-8, 1 Cor 12:7, to enable us to minister in some capacity with the Body of Christ.

The Gospel Coalition puts it this way:

That all believers are priests means that not only ministers but also the person in the pew has the right and authority to read, interpret, and apply the teachings of the Bible. A caste of priests does not have this right. No longer must we place our implicit faith in the teaching of the church magisterium (the official teaching arm of the church), but like the Bereans in the days of the apostle Paul, we can learn immediately from the word of God and the instruction of the Holy Spirit (Acts 17:11).

Every person, therefore, who is united to Christ, shares in his priestly office, but this great blessing does not mean that we should reject the authority, function, and office of minister. We are indeed a holy nation and kingdom of priests. Christ dispenses this holy office to all Christians through the outpouring of the Spirit. But in addition to this blessing, Christ has also given to the church gifts: “And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for the building up the body of Christ” (Eph. 4:11–12). The shepherds and teachers of the church are priests just like the rest of the body of Christ, but the Spirit uniquely gifts them so they can equip the church for their own growth in grace and the proclamation of the gospel. These shepherds and teachers do not belong to a higher order of being, as in the medieval understanding. Rather, they are one part of the body of Christ, not greater than any other part but necessary nonetheless. The shepherd cannot say to the person in the pew, “I have no need of you because the Spirit has gifted me to be a shepherd.” Conversely, the person in the pew cannot say to the shepherd, “I have no need of you because I am a priest in Christ.” God has sovereignly arranged the body of Christ in such a manner that each part, though different in function and gifts, needs every other part (1 Cor. 12:4–26).

 

[MoreCoffee]

No, it is prescriptive. Most translations do not say "going", it says "Go"

Two points:

1. Why should I accept your interpretation as true instead of the translation I quoted from?
2. Why should I consider this passage as addressing anyone other than the apostles to whom it was spoken?

 

[JustTheFacts]

Two points:

1. Why should I accept your interpretation as true instead of the translation I quoted from?
2. Why should I consider this passage as addressing anyone other than the apostles to whom it was spoken?

Funny, the evidence shows that Matthew 16:17-19 was never stated by Jesus yet you are debating the meaning of it. Wouldn't it be better to do some of your own research to find out the truth? Everyone agrees that Matthew's author copied from Mark's author, or as religious leaders like to claim, 'relied on him.' There are three key portions of Matthew that if you compare to the Gospel of Mark and John versions the evidence shows that Matthew's author copied them from Mark's author; the tax collector story, Peter walking on water, and Jesus assigning Peter to be the leader of the Church. All three of these edits are crucial to elevating the status of Peter. Debate on and ignore the evidence, but where will it get you? History shows that it will get you nowhere.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Funny, the evidence shows that Matthew 16:17-19 was never stated by Jesus

Well, No.! There is no such evidence.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Well, No.! There is no such evidence.

I guess you haven't done the analysis then.

 

[Lanman87]

Two points:

1. Why should I accept your interpretation as true instead of the translation I quoted from?
2. Why should I consider this passage as addressing anyone other than the apostles to whom it was spoken?

1. Because the majority of translations, even Catholic accept translations, agree with the translations I posted. The DYA is an outlier.

For instance, the New Catholic Bible says:

19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

The greek word for go is

πορεύω (poreuō)​

Strong: G4198

It is the same word used in Matthew 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go G4198 into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.

In this sense, it is telling someone do to something. Go out, or as you Go on your way, are the sense it which it is used. It is a directive to do something.

2. Because the rest of Scripture tells us that this is part of the ministry of every believer (as I pointed out). And we see the actions of the followers of Christ, starting in the first century and continuing until today.

Because the Scriptures tell us that God, through the Holy Spirit, has gifted certain people to be evangelist and teachers.

According to Strong Greek Concordance an evangelist is:

STRONGS G2099:
εὐαγγελιστής, -οῦ, ὁ, (εὐαγγελίζω), a biblical and ecclesiastical word, a bringer of good tidings, an evangelist (Vulg. evangelista). This name is given in the N. T. to those heralds of salvation through Christ who are not apostles:

 

[MoreCoffee]

I guess you haven't done the analysis then.

Of course not, only the gnostic initiates do that, right?

 

[MoreCoffee]

1. Because the majority of translations, even Catholic accept translations, agree with the translations I posted. The DYA is an outlier.

For instance, the New Catholic Bible says:

19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

The greek word for go is

πορεύω (poreuō)​

Strong: G4198

It is the same word used in Matthew 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go G4198 into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.

In this sense, it is telling someone do to something. Go out, or as you Go on your way, are the sense it which it is used. It is a directive to do something.

2. Because the rest of Scripture tells us that this is part of the ministry of every believer (as I pointed out). And we see the actions of the followers of Christ, starting in the first century and continuing until today.

Because the Scriptures tell us that God, through the Holy Spirit, has gifted certain people to be evangelist and teachers.

According to Strong Greek Concordance an evangelist is:

STRONGS G2099:
εὐαγγελιστής, -οῦ, ὁ, (εὐαγγελίζω), a biblical and ecclesiastical word, a bringer of good tidings, an evangelist (Vulg. evangelista). This name is given in the N. T. to those heralds of salvation through Christ who are not apostles:

The DRB is translated from Latin not from Greek, but the Greek was consulted in the course of translating.
1610 text of DRB:

Matthew 28:16. ⋮ And the eleuen Disciples went into Galilee, vnto the mount where Iᴇꜱᴠꜱ had appointed them. 17. And seeing him they adored, but some doubted. 18. ⋮ And Iᴇꜱᴠꜱ comming neere spake vnto them, saying: Al power is giuen to me in Heauen and in earth. 19. going therfore teach ye al Nations: Bᴀᴘᴛɪᴢɪɴɢ ᴛʜᴇᴍ ɪɴ ᴛʜᴇ ɴᴀᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴛʜᴇ ꜰᴀᴛʜᴇʀ, ᴀɴᴅ ᴏꜰ ᴛʜᴇ ꜱᴏɴɴᴇ, ᴀɴᴅ ᴏꜰ ᴛʜᴇ Hᴏʟʏ Gʜᴏꜱᴛ, 20. teaching them to obserue al things whatsoeuer I haue commanded you: and behold I am with you al daies, euen to the consummation of the world.​

​

Footnote: 19. Going therfore.) The Catholike Church to be gathered of al Nations. Commission to baptize and preach to al Nations giuen to the Apostles, and grounded vpon Christs soueraigne authority, to whom was giuen al power in Heauen and in earth.​

​

[AND in answer to my own question, the DRB footnotes say:​

20. With you al daies.) Christs continual protection of the same Church. Here Christ doth promise his concurrence with his Apostles and their Successours, as wel in preaching as ministring the Sacraments, and his protection of the Church neuer to cease til the worlds end: contrary to our Aduersaries, saying that the Church hath failed many hundred yeares til Luther and Caluin.with you al daies, euen to the consummation of the world.​

I think you've made a mountain out of the "going" molehill.

 

[Lanman87]

The DRB is translated from Latin not from Greek, but the Greek was consulted in the course of translating.
1610 text of DRB:

Matthew 28:16. ⋮ And the eleuen Disciples went into Galilee, vnto the mount where Iᴇꜱᴠꜱ had appointed them. 17. And seeing him they adored, but some doubted. 18. ⋮ And Iᴇꜱᴠꜱ comming neere spake vnto them, saying: Al power is giuen to me in Heauen and in earth. 19. going therfore teach ye al Nations: Bᴀᴘᴛɪᴢɪɴɢ ᴛʜᴇᴍ ɪɴ ᴛʜᴇ ɴᴀᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴛʜᴇ ꜰᴀᴛʜᴇʀ, ᴀɴᴅ ᴏꜰ ᴛʜᴇ ꜱᴏɴɴᴇ, ᴀɴᴅ ᴏꜰ ᴛʜᴇ Hᴏʟʏ Gʜᴏꜱᴛ, 20. teaching them to obserue al things whatsoeuer I haue commanded you: and behold I am with you al daies, euen to the consummation of the world.​

​

Footnote: 19. Going therfore.) The Catholike Church to be gathered of al Nations. Commission to baptize and preach to al Nations giuen to the Apostles, and grounded vpon Christs soueraigne authority, to whom was giuen al power in Heauen and in earth.​

​

[AND in answer to my own question, the DRB footnotes say:​

20. With you al daies.) Christs continual protection of the same Church. Here Christ doth promise his concurrence with his Apostles and their Successours, as wel in preaching as ministring the Sacraments, and his protection of the Church neuer to cease til the worlds end: contrary to our Aduersaries, saying that the Church hath failed many hundred yeares til Luther and Caluin.with you al daies, euen to the consummation of the world.​

I think you've made a mountain out of the "going" molehill.

Just trying to answer your questions.

Just curious. are you a DRB only person? I've heard that there are some in the Catholic church who do not accept any other translation. Just as there are KJV only protestants (mostly Independent Fundamentalist Baptist).

 

[MoreCoffee]

are you a DRB only person?

No.

 

[BruceLeiter]

i follow the Law of God. Deuteronomy 18:21-22 gives me the guidelines for a prophet to be from God. Deuteronomy 17:6 and 19:15 for proving that Jesus is the Messiah. No where did God allow the words of “inspired men” to be the word of God. That is a creation of false teachers who, through it, were validated to speak for God.

No, look at all the prophetic books, in which they say that "the word of the LORD" came to so-and-so. And 2 Peter 1:16-21 seems to contradict your ideas. After all, the prophets beginning with Moses wrote the Old Testament:
2Pe 1:16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,”
2Pe 1:18 we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.
2Pe 1:19 And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,
2Pe 1:20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

 

[JustTheFacts]

No, look at all the prophetic books, in which they say that "the word of the LORD" came to so-and-so.

Yes OT prophets are validated as speaking for God if they prophesied the Messiah--as specified in the Deuteronomy requirements.

And 2 Peter 1:16-21 seems to contradict your ideas. After all, the prophets beginning with Moses wrote the Old Testament:

The prophets who accurately predicted Jesus as the Messiah are proven to be prophets who God designated to speak for him through Deuteronomy requirements.

2Pe 1:16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

There is a claim up front that Peter wrote this letter yet, there is evidence that it wasn't written by him. There is a reference to "tents" indicating that Paul wrote it and there is language similar to what is attributed to Paul. Also, 1 Peter was written by a scribe, so could Peter even write?

2Pe 1:17 For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,”
2Pe 1:18 we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.

Say for the sake that this letter is written by Peter--which I don't think it was. Where does it state that he or any of the disciples can speak for God.

2Pe 1:19 And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day
dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,
2Pe 1:20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

I think this is actually a reference to Revelation because of the wording in it and the statement connecting it to prophecy.

I appreciate your review Bruce and don't mind you picking my conclusions apart. We may agree to disagree in the end, but I am doing this with a good heart for Jesus to find and report the truth.