Bound for Hell, not God's fault

[Lamb]

Calvinists would like you to believe that God is responsible for those who are going to hell. But that's not the case. Because of the fall, which was the fault of Adam and Eve, not God, man is already bound for hell.

 

[tango]

One trouble with predestination is that it opens up huge cans of worms every which way. If Adam and Eve were preordained to eat the forbidden fruit then can we say it was their fault?

 

[Frankj]

Calvinists would like you to believe that God is responsible for those who are going to hell. But that's not the case. Because of the fall, which was the fault of Adam and Eve, not God, man is already bound for hell.

The Noachian laws given to the offspring of Noah (which encompasses all of mankind) and the Ten Commandments given Israel through Moses later on would make no sense either if there was no choice to obey or disobey God. This would simply not make sense.

I like to look at as Einstein did when examining a proposed new theory and ask "Why would God do it that way?".

If anything of God can be determined through the examination of his creation (The Heavens and the Earth) it is that everything he does makes sense and we should look at all things scriptural or otherwise that way.

 

[Lamb]

Ephesians 2:3

By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else.

 

[BruceLeiter]

Calvinists would like you to believe that God is responsible for those who are going to hell. But that's not the case. Because of the fall, which was the fault of Adam and Eve, not God, man is already bound for hell.

Lamb, please don't generalize about all Calvinists, because as a Calvinist, I don't believe that God is at all responsible for people's perdition; they are. I and most Calvinists, other than a small minority called hyper-Calvinists, believe that God allows or permits people to go to hell. God plans all, including his permissive will for evil, but people are fully responsible for all their decisions in life.

 

[BruceLeiter]

One trouble with predestination is that it opens up huge cans of worms every which way. If Adam and Eve were preordained to eat the forbidden fruit then can we say it was their fault?

God permits evil in his plan for good, the good that Jesus would eventually bring us (Genesis 3:15) by defeating Satan.

 

[denise]

God gives choice to accept him are go to hell we choose

 

[tango]

God permits evil in his plan for good, the good that Jesus would eventually bring us (Genesis 3:15) by defeating Satan.

Sure, but it requires that we have the ability to choose between the two. If Adam and Eve had no choice but to eat the forbidden fruit how can we say it was their fault that they did eat it?

 

[Frankj]

Sure, but it requires that we have the ability to choose between the two. If Adam and Eve had no choice but to eat the forbidden fruit how can we say it was their fault that they did eat it?

It wouldn't be forbidden in there was no choice, for what then would the purpose of forbidding it be?

 

[tango]

It wouldn't be forbidden in there was no choice, for what then would the purpose of forbidding it be?

Exactly. The original post talked about Calvinists and the view that God is responsible for people going to hell, a view that I think leads into some of these questions.

 

[BruceLeiter]

Exactly. The original post talked about Calvinists and the view that God is responsible for people going to hell, a view that I think leads into some of these questions.

As I said to Lamb above, I, as a Calvinist among the large majority of Calvinists, do not believe at all that God is responsible for evil choices humans make. We believe that he allows but does not cause human sin and therefore is not responsible for it. Sin is solely caused by humans' sinful natures, the devil, and the tempting world.

 

[tango]

As I said to Lamb above, I, as a Calvinist among the large majority of Calvinists, do not believe at all that God is responsible for evil choices humans make. We believe that he allows but does not cause human sin and therefore is not responsible for it. Sin is solely caused by humans' sinful natures, the devil, and the tempting world.

Fair call, the difference between Calvinists and the ones you called hyper-Calvinists (not unreasonably, IMO) is a good distinction to repeat here.