Being overweight

[Messy]

That's been my experience as well.

In addition, I was once married, and my wife was overweight. If one watched her for the majority of her waking hours, one would wonder why. She often didn't eat breakfast or lunch. Come dinner time though, it was feast time just before bed. That wouldn't be vegetables or legumes, or whole grains or fruit or seeds. No, it was high fat meat products, fried food, lots of cheese, rich deserts and even more dairy mixed with sugar right before bed. She wasn't obese, but she was fat and one meal a day like this was pretty much the norm.


Yep, this is the reason people often don't take what overweight people say at face value. If a "small snack" is a shopping bag full of low nutrient, hi calorie junk food, one must wonder what a "regular meal" is.

An ex was overweight. He really didn't eat much, but he had eaten a lot all those years and just because you start to eat normal, the fat won't just go away. You have to eat 1000 calories a day for a long time or do sports.
My mom wasn't fat, but she thought so. She always wanted to be thin and she weighed 5 kilo too much or something, so she ate almost nothing. No secret eating, just some salad, no potatoes for dinner. But she didn't lose weight. She went to a dietitian, who said she had to eat more, because her metabolism was way too low, because she ate so little and she was too old to do that. She could do that when she was 20, just not eat and lose weight. When she started to eat more she lost weight.
And that guy on the video I posted, that was a virus. It did make him overeat, but it was because of that virus. He was continually hungry.

 

[Stravinsk]

An ex was overweight. He really didn't eat much, but he had eaten a lot all those years and just because you start to eat normal, the fat won't just go away. You have to eat 1000 calories a day for a long time or do sports.
My mom wasn't fat, but she thought so. She always wanted to be thin and she weighed 5 kilo too much or something, so she ate almost nothing. No secret eating, just some salad, no potatoes for dinner. But she didn't lose weight. She went to a dietitian, who said she had to eat more, because her metabolism was way too low, because she ate so little and she was too old to do that. She could do that when she was 20, just not eat and lose weight. When she started to eat more she lost weight.
And that guy on the video I posted, that was a virus. It did make him overeat, but it was because of that virus. He was continually hungry.

Generally, you are correct. If a person stops over-eating calories and eats enough to satisfy basic energy needs in addition to any extra energy expenditure, the fat stays. This is because the body will burn glucose first, carbs that easily turn to glucose second, and fat only when the glucose supply is in deficit (the fat is converted to glucose in this case). The fact that the body only burns (converts) fat when it needs to led to the lie of the Atkin's diet (the lie being one needs to "train" the body to burn fat by eating more fat and limiting carbs). One of the best ways to achieve this instead is to limit fat intake and up the metabolism with exercise to create a deficit where the body requires the body's fat stores.

I lost a lot of weight going vegan. But this isn't a cure for being overweight. Vegans can have excess fat, especially if they overdue the fatty vegan foods (oil especially), or overdo carbs (no reason to burn fat when plenty of carbs present). Alcohol is converted to glucose so over-doing this also keeps the body from burning fat.

What our friend here is trying to convince us of however is what I consider a basic over-weight person lie. Maybe there are diseases that drastically make a person retain fat however most people don't have them. They over indulge (especially in fatty foods) and aren't active enough to burn the extra calories. Out of all the energy foods fat has the highest amount of calories. In fact, people think that carbs "turn to fat" but this is untrue also - most of the carbs are burned for energy and are not converted. It's the fat intake that provides the greatest source of stored fat. Obese people didn't get that way eating too many carbs. They got that way (generally speaking) by eating too many refined carbs that leave them starving for nutrients in addition to a whole lot of fat (from meat, cheese, eggs, fried foods etc).

 

[Messy]

Generally, you are correct. If a person stops over-eating calories and eats enough to satisfy basic energy needs in addition to any extra energy expenditure, the fat stays. This is because the body will burn glucose first, carbs that easily turn to glucose second, and fat only when the glucose supply is in deficit (the fat is converted to glucose in this case). The fact that the body only burns (converts) fat when it needs to led to the lie of the Atkin's diet (the lie being one needs to "train" the body to burn fat by eating more fat and limiting carbs). One of the best ways to achieve this instead is to limit fat intake and up the metabolism with exercise to create a deficit where the body requires the body's fat stores.

I lost a lot of weight going vegan. But this isn't a cure for being overweight. Vegans can have excess fat, especially if they overdue the fatty vegan foods (oil especially), or overdo carbs (no reason to burn fat when plenty of carbs present). Alcohol is converted to glucose so over-doing this also keeps the body from burning fat.

What our friend here is trying to convince us of however is what I consider a basic over-weight person lie. Maybe there are diseases that drastically make a person retain fat however most people don't have them. They over indulge (especially in fatty foods) and aren't active enough to burn the extra calories. Out of all the energy foods fat has the highest amount of calories. In fact, people think that carbs "turn to fat" but this is untrue also - most of the carbs are burned for energy and are not converted. It's the fat intake that provides the greatest source of stored fat. Obese people didn't get that way eating too many carbs. They got that way (generally speaking) by eating too many refined carbs that leave them starving for nutrients in addition to a whole lot of fat (from meat, cheese, eggs, fried foods etc).

My son thought he was too thin and now he wants to get muscles and gain weight, so I throw loads of oil in the pan when I bake stuff for him and he didn't really like eating, but he wants 3000 calories a day now, preferably as easy as possible to eat. When I was around 18 I wanted to lose weight and did a 1000 calorie diet and I've always watched my weight. Got 2 kilo extra? Whoop eat less. No peanuts. That's 700 calories for 100 gram. No fat. So that's handy now. I give him the opposite advice. Have to watch out he eats healthy though. He did gain 10 kilo in a few months, but he has almost no fat. It's all muscle. A collegue said: all these teen girls eat nothing, cause they have to be thin and all those teen boys stuff themselves full, cause they want muscles.

 

[Messy]

The worst thing for me about being overweight are the assumptions and judgement people make about why I am overweight. People think it's as simple as calories in, calories burned. But as research shows, it is much more complex than that because each body metabolizes certain things differently. Just think of all the additives, preservatives, pesticides, chemicals, hormones, etc that are added to all but certified organic foods. Organic foods are also very expensive, so people who have little money end up spending it on foods that are really unhealthy and little more than hunger fillers.

For me, though, I hate the judgement. I eat mostly healthy, but I have a genetic (there are 3 places in the genome, all on the same chromosome) condition called lipedema, that makes it practically impossible to lose any weight that I gain, and there is a difference in colour and texture between lipedema fat and regular fat. I have had 3 surgical treatments so far, and will need two more. Recently I had to see a doctor who is not my regular, who asked repeatedly (about 8 times) through the 5-minute checkup whether I am diabetic, and he told me to lose weight. I am healthy, dammit! My blood levels are all normal. All of them. I hate having to justify myself to people who don't matter, and I hate the judgement.... even from doctors, who misdiagnose women with lipedema as simply obese with a simple cure: lose weight.

I had never even heard of that. Sounds horrible. It's just a disease and eating less doesn't help.

 

[tango]

Personal responsibility has nothing to do with other factors that are beyond control. I'm pretty sure I mentioned that several posts ago.[/quote[

You did, but you've used an awful lot of words to dance around facing the issue that unless someone holds a gun to your head and demands you eat that third piece of pie there are a lot of factors that are within your control.

You can make excuses about mental health issues, depression, whatever, but the fact remains that people choose what they put in their mouths. If you make bad choices you're going to gain extra weight.

However, there seems to be no talking to people who continue to use derogatory language and judgements. Sometimes I think people like to argue just for the sake of being argumentative and are not the least bit interested in really listening to others or understanding other perspectives than their own.

Derogatory language? Seriously? Is that the best you've got?

I've been fat in the past. I've been obese. I've been the guy who didn't shoot hoops with everyone else because I was so badly out of shape I got sweaty and winded embarrassingly fast, so sat and had another plate of food instead. And I was willing to own that decision and others just like it, even if mostly after the fact, and I took some responsibility for my life and did something different. There were many days that I just didn't want to go for a walk but I got off my rear end and did it anyway.

Even now, when I can honestly say I enjoy running, there are days that I find myself wanting to sit in my recliner all day and eat candy. I can make endless excuses for why I don't feel like running today, and endless excuses why I'd rather just sit and eat candy, but the fact remains if I make that the new normal I can kiss goodbye to the work I've done so far and find myself gaining weight. So even on the days I don't particularly want to exercise I get out and do something. If my legs ache from running too much I walk or hike so I can get a lower intensity exercise. If the weather is awful I might use a treadmill or walk laps of the hall at church. It's mind-numbingly boring but keeps my exercise going. It's a decision.

But hey, throw around accusations if it makes you feel better. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step but it's so much easier to look at the distance, say it's too hard, and then insist it's not your fault when you made the choice to stay seated and have another piece of pie, right?

I really gotta find forums where people have conversations to learn and exchange ideas and information rather than just dig in their heels and assert their own "us/them, right/wrong" mindset.

Respectfully, it might help if you presented a consistent argument and didn't try to reduce counterpoints to strawman arguments. Your comment about someone "with a bag of chips in their cart" completely misses the point. As I said, it's not about someone with a bag of chips in their cart. It's about someone who is already morbidly obese whose cart is loaded with pizzas, family size bags (plural) of chips, endless multipacks of sugar-laden fizzy drinks and probably a good bagful of candy loaded with sugars and fats.

 

[Messy]

But what she has has nothing to do with food. Doctors say so. You may eat hardly anything and still have lipedema and dieting doesn't work and there are always annoying ppl who will blame them anyway. My aunt was fat because of a kidney disease. She hardly ate anything. It was mostly water. Yet ppl bullied her and called her fat. My sister gained weight. Who cares. It's because she gave her kidney to her son. And there are also people who simply eat too much and come up with nonsense excuses, like they have heavy bones and that guy from the video I posted had a virus, which made him be extremely hungry all the time. That's easy to judge him when I have no virus, no extreme hunger and can easily stay thin. Judging is annoying. Even if ppl eat way too much, so what. Why should I judge them? I smoked and it was so irritating, these judgemental non smokers who had never smoked in their life. 'You should just stop.' Aaaargh. Shut up. I got help for free via telephone and free nicotin pads and a lot of help from God, because it was impossible for me to stop, so why should I judge someone who eats too much for whatever reason or maybe doesnt even eat too much, but has a disease.