Bad theology perpetuated in songs.

[tango]

It's merely pointing out a historic event. No theology provided.

It does mention the virgin mother.

I agree, there's not a lot there, I'm just sure it's completely devoid.

 

[meluckycharms]

If theological soundness isn't required to count as worship, where would you draw the line?

What is theologically sound?

 

[tango]

What is theologically sound?

I'd hazard a guess the dividing line sits somewhere between the traditional hymn "Praise my soul the King of heaven" and a song like "Blasphemy" by Morbid Angel.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I'll add Laura Storey "Blessings", and Amy Grant "Better than a Hallelujah"
Somehow I don't think God wants our maudlin self-pity. Yes, we struggle, and yes, God hears us and cares for us; but when I'm being kicked in the teeth by life, I don't wonder "What if our blessings come through raindrops"? Is raw emotion for the sake of it really "better than a Hallelujah sometimes"?
The more I focus on how "far away" God seems at times, the farther away he'll get.

 

[hedrick]

The purpose of Silent Night isn't to teach theology, but to help us envision the scene of Jesus' birth. When used as part of a Christmas worship service I think it has a useful function.

I have no idea what the purpose is for "No matter what the weapon is, I want you to know that I win." Worship at an NRA convention? a chapel service for Special Forces?

 

[meluckycharms]

I'd hazard a guess the dividing line sits somewhere between the traditional hymn "Praise my soul the King of heaven" and a song like "Blasphemy" by Morbid Angel.

Lol. I guess the point that I am trying to make is that Christian theology is diverse. So it makes sense that their worship songs would be theologically diverse as well. Heck, I am sure many of the protestants here wouldn't be too pleased if Ave Maria was played in their church.

 

[psalms 91]

Lol. I guess the point that I am trying to make is that Christian theology is diverse. So it makes sense that their worship songs would be theologically diverse as well. Heck, I am sure many of the protestants here wouldn't be too pleased if Ave Maria was played in their church.

Actually I think that is a beautiful piece of music, not sure about the theology though

 

[MennoSota]

The purpose of Silent Night isn't to teach theology, but to help us envision the scene of Jesus' birth. When used as part of a Christmas worship service I think it has a useful function.

I have no idea what the purpose is for "No matter what the weapon is, I want you to know that I win." Worship at an NRA convention? a chapel service for Special Forces?

Then Silent Night is also wildly mistaken.
With there being no room available at the inn, animals in the manger and a woman in labor, it is a sure bet that the night was far from silent.

 

[MennoSota]

A good discussion on "When Worship Lyrics Miss the Mark."
https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/when-worship-lyrics-miss-the-mark

 

[tango]

Lol. I guess the point that I am trying to make is that Christian theology is diverse. So it makes sense that their worship songs would be theologically diverse as well. Heck, I am sure many of the protestants here wouldn't be too pleased if Ave Maria was played in their church.

Theology is diverse but I'd hope there would be some things we can all agree on. I'd also expect to find some theology within the songs so that the songs at least give an indication of a message they are trying to convey, as opposed to endlessly repeating the same line or two over and over and over again.

If you look at what passes for worship at a place like IHOP it's literally singing the same two lines repeatedly for 5-10 minutes, then switching to two lines from another song and singing that for another 5-10 minutes, and so on. I thought I had experienced mind-numbing tedium but the first (and only) time I was subjected to IHOP the term took on a whole new meaning. It reminds me of what Jesus said about vain repetition..

But even allowing for diverse theology, songs like Bethel's "Deep Cries Out" that talk of how "we will never be denied" seems like it's off the mark any which way you look at it. Sadly God doesn't always give us exactly what we want, God doesn't dance to our tune (if he did then we would be God and he would not) and so on. So you've got something theologically wrong, perpetuated in a song where a room full of people sing something that is demonstrably not true, while seeing nothing wrong with it.

 

[tango]

Then Silent Night is also wildly mistaken.
With there being no room available at the inn, animals in the manger and a woman in labor, it is a sure bet that the night was far from silent.

But "Silent night, holy night, all is calm, all is bright" conjures up a far more pleasing image than "Smelly night, crowded night, stench of poop, left and right"

 

[MennoSota]

But "Silent night, holy night, all is calm, all is bright" conjures up a far more pleasing image than "Smelly night, crowded night, stench of poop, left and right"

Indeed, we want our redeemer to look pleasing and calm rather than come into a world full of stench.

 

[tango]

Indeed, we want our redeemer to look pleasing and calm rather than come into a world full of stench.

We certainly like our nativity scenes of a well scrubbed manger, lined with just the right amount of nice fresh straw, evenly distributed for comfort, while a few farmyard animals (usually a single sheep, a single cow and maybe a single pig) that are similarly clean mill about. I don't know about you but I don't think I've ever seen a cow shed that was clean. Pigs aren't known for being perfectly clean. Sheep can be cute but what comes from the south end of a north-bound sheep is anything but. Throw in a few chickens and the stench associated with them in a confined space and you've got yourself a seriously unpleasant place to give birth. Which is pretty much the perfect setting for the entry of the servant King who turned everything on its head.

 

[MennoSota]

We certainly like our nativity scenes of a well scrubbed manger, lined with just the right amount of nice fresh straw, evenly distributed for comfort, while a few farmyard animals (usually a single sheep, a single cow and maybe a single pig) that are similarly clean mill about. I don't know about you but I don't think I've ever seen a cow shed that was clean. Pigs aren't known for being perfectly clean. Sheep can be cute but what comes from the south end of a north-bound sheep is anything but. Throw in a few chickens and the stench associated with them in a confined space and you've got yourself a seriously unpleasant place to give birth. Which is pretty much the perfect setting for the entry of the servant King who turned everything on its head.

Pig? In Israel? That would be a cultural faux pas.

 

[tango]

Pig? In Israel? That would be a cultural faux pas.

The prodigal son wanted to eat the pig food. Parable, but, you know....

 

[MennoSota]

The prodigal son wanted to eat the pig food. Parable, but, you know....

He was in a foreign land...

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Look - baby Jesus was born, it was sweet, he pooped, animals pooped, Mary was in pain and probably chewed out Joseph because he was giving moral support all wrong. The end.

 

[MennoSota]

This popular hymn may not be bad theology, rather it has no theology.
"In The Garden"
1. I come to the garden alone
while the dew is still on the roses,
and the voice I hear falling on my ear
the Son of God discloses.
Refrain:
And he walks with me, and he talks with me,
and he tells me I am his own;
and the joy we share as we tarry there,
none other has ever known.
2. He speaks, and the sound of his voice,
is so sweet the birds hush their singing,
and the melody that he gave to me
within my heart is ringing. (Refrain)
3. I’d stay in the garden with him
though the night around me be falling,
but he bids me go; thru the voice of woe
his voice to me is calling. (Refrain)

 

[Lamb]

This popular hymn may not be bad theology, rather it has no theology.
"In The Garden"
1. I come to the garden alone
while the dew is still on the roses,
and the voice I hear falling on my ear
the Son of God discloses.
Refrain:
And he walks with me, and he talks with me,
and he tells me I am his own;
and the joy we share as we tarry there,
none other has ever known.
2. He speaks, and the sound of his voice,
is so sweet the birds hush their singing,
and the melody that he gave to me
within my heart is ringing. (Refrain)
3. I’d stay in the garden with him
though the night around me be falling,
but he bids me go; thru the voice of woe
his voice to me is calling. (Refrain)

This was my grandmother's favorite song!! No Lutheran church plays it because as you say...there's no theology in it. My grandmother was not Lutheran.

 

[NewCreation435]

Perhaps, but most of that 5 minutes and 42 seconds is singing more or less the same line over and over and over.

I would rather them singing about the powerful name of Jesus than singing most of the secular songs on the radio.