World Are fear and ignorance driving our politics?

MoreCoffee

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That does seem to be the case, although I think Trump is also riding high on a wave of anger.

When Middle America sees their income stagnating as the cost of living rises, when the notion that each generation is wealthier than the one before it starts to fade away, when job security is a thing of the past, and when presidential candidates appear to be sold to the highest bidder, it's easy to see why people are drawn to a guy who at least talks a good game regarding getting incumbents out, and who is wealthy enough that he doesn't need to take money from anyone.

When it seems to people (with at least some justification) that the system is badly broken and things that are supposed to fix it just end up making things worse, they will vote for someone promising something extreme. The trouble is from where we are now, economically speaking, there is no way out without causing huge financial pain to large numbers of people. It's hard to see things working out very well for savers, since borrowers are a majority and the government is a huge borrower. When the government has debts in excess of $17,000,000,000,000 they have an obvious vested interest in keeping interest rates as low as possible and devaluing the currency. Too bad for the people trying to make ends meet, trying to save a deposit on a house, trying to put money by for a rainy day.

But isn't Donald Trump the highest bidder himself? His appeal is a sham appeal to the masses. He says "I am an outsider" when his wealth and position has been obtained by a thousand back room deals in politics and with politicians. His plan is not to increase the wealth of the common people. He aims to increase his own influence and build his own monumental legacy. He will be richer when he leaves office (should he obtain office) than when he entered it. His class will be richer than they were before. But the masses will be the ones who, without benefit to themselves, build the wealth he and his like will receive.
 

tango

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But isn't Donald Trump the highest bidder himself? His appeal is a sham appeal to the masses. He says "I am an outsider" when his wealth and position has been obtained by a thousand back room deals in politics and with politicians. His plan is not to increase the wealth of the common people. He aims to increase his own influence and build his own monumental legacy. He will be richer when he leaves office (should he obtain office) than when he entered it. His class will be richer than they were before. But the masses will be the ones who, without benefit to themselves, build the wealth he and his like will receive.

In a way you're right. I suppose the difference is that he is already wealthy enough that he doesn't need to turn to corporate donors or cut anyone slack in exchange for a brown envelope handed under the table.

He is an outsider, at least as far as high political office is concerned. I wonder if people do believe that he's "someone like me" (which as a billionaire he clearly isn't, for 99+% of the population) or whether they see him as someone who will shake up politics.

I can't help thinking that imposing term limits on Congress and the Senate would be a better place to start, but that's just me :)
 

MoreCoffee

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In a way you're right. I suppose the difference is that he is already wealthy enough that he doesn't need to turn to corporate donors or cut anyone slack in exchange for a brown envelope handed under the table.

He is an outsider, at least as far as high political office is concerned. I wonder if people do believe that he's "someone like me" (which as a billionaire he clearly isn't, for 99+% of the population) or whether they see him as someone who will shake up politics.

I can't help thinking that imposing term limits on Congress and the Senate would be a better place to start, but that's just me :)

Increasing the churn rate in the congress would not hobble the lobbyists nor the wealthy and influential who hire them. In the old covenant there was a levelling sabbath year and jubilee year that was intended to, but failed to, limit the accumulation of wealth and power in family lines. I do not doubt that any laws devised to do the same in modern times would meet with ultimate failure too. The billions of Donald Trump seem to be effective at buying influence and votes. He may not be an elected politician but he surely has political nous since he is wealthy and influential and those things (wealth and influence) do not come outside of politics in this world.
 

Highlander

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Of course, every single Muslim is a bloodthirsty terrorist, how silly of me to forget. Except the ones that aren't, of course. Like the Muslim who runs the hardware store up the road from where I used to live. He managed to sell me all sorts of innocent items but sadly forgot he was supposed to kill me. Or the Muslim neighbors I had who invited me into their house when I locked myself out of my own, and made me a cup of tea. They didn't even have the basic decency to behead me while I was there. Or the Muslims I worked with for years who managed to attend an office in the capital city of the little Satan and forgot to blow us all up while they were there.

How silly of me to overlook the fact that all Muslims are terrorists despite the inconvenient fact that it's just not true. But hey, you keep taking your information from Fox News, or wherever it is you're getting it from, because your description of Muslims as an amorphous mass doesn't seem to align too well with reality. The fact they largely have brown skin and beards (the men at least, Muslim women don't grow beards any more than any other woman) doesn't change the fact that there are differences between Muslims just as there are differences between Christians and Hindus and Buddhists and Pastafarians and Zoroastrians and, well, you probably get the idea.

Hey, since it's obviously so important to make sure nobody is exposed to any threat at all, maybe we should stop men from entering the country? You know, we couldn't be having American women facing an increased risk of rape just to prove we weren't sexist as a nation could we? What about Christians? They might be the type to blow up abortion clinics or indoctrinate young minds against the creeping advance of secularism. Best keep those dodgy types out. Let's just close the borders while we're at it, you know, just to be safe.

Did you look over the statistics I posted? You're more likely to be killed in a car crash than killed by a terrorist. Shall we take all the cars off the roads? Better safe than sorry, right? What was the thread topic again? Oh yes, fear and ignorance. How very appropriate.




Really? I had no idea I had any responsibility for the actions of a couple of dozen men. Was I responsible for Columbine and for Timothy McVeigh as well? I never knew a bit of free thinking could cause such chaos. Maybe I should go turn myself in to the nearest police station. But wait, Columbine wasn't caused by Muslims and Timothy McVeigh - wasn't he a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, all-American boy? Say, maybe terrorism is more complex than rounding up young men with brown skin and beards. Whoda thunkit?

It's good to know I'm no different to Obama. Except for my skin color, my political outlook, my economic outlook, well, quite a few things actually. He's the same gender and the same species which, given your tendency to lump as many people as you can into an amorphous mass, probably does count as me being "just like him". But hey, you're a male human as well so maybe you're just like him too? Bet you never saw that one coming, eh?

If I'm so far off the rails you could always put forward a suggestion as to how to protect a country from threats without taking to extreme measures. You know, like how to determine who is dangerous with a little more sophisticated methodology than "brown skin and beard bad, white skin and no beard good". Otherwise what happens when a radicalised Western Muslim with white skin shaves off his beard to trick immigration and does something drastic? But hey, he doesn't have brown skin, or a beard, or a towel on his head, so he must be OK, right?

Nicely inebriated comments up above. Which means that they+ a quarter are worth about 25 cents.

Currently there are about 2.75 million Muslims in the USA. It is estimated that between 15 and 25% of them are religious radicals. If you get out your crayon and do the math, this means there are potentially 687,500 radical Muslims in the USA right now. Why is it that you want to bring even more radicals in that wish to kill us?

What kind of an "American" are you? Are not 2,500+ dead Americans enough to satisfy you? Why do you wish for more?
 

MoreCoffee

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Nicely inebriated comments up above. Which means that they+ a quarter are worth about 25 cents.

Currently there are about 2.75 million Muslims in the USA. It is estimated that between 15 and 25% of them are religious radicals. If you get out your crayon and do the math, this means there are potentially 687,500 radical Muslims in the USA right now. Why is it that you want to bring even more radicals in that wish to kill us?

What kind of an "American" are you? Are not 2,500+ dead Americans enough to satisfy you? Why do you wish for more?

Pssssst ... he is not from the USA and neither am I.
 

psalms 91

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Pssssst ... he is not from the USA and neither am I.
Then if you like the idea of bringing them in I suggest you talk yto your leaders to allow them yo come flooding in
 

MoreCoffee

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Then if you like the idea of bringing them in I suggest you talk to your leaders to allow them to come flooding in

Bringing who in?
 

psalms 91

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I believe we were discussing the Syrian refugees were we not?
 

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I believe we were discussing the Syrian refugees were we not?

Yes, we were. My own country's government has harsh policies about refugees who arrive by boat without visas. Some see it as cruel and inhuman. But regarding Syrians the government here seems keen to receive Christian Syrians and others from persecuted minorities.
 

psalms 91

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Good I agree with those who are persucuted providing they can prove that they are and not terrorists. I dont want to ban entry but wouldlike to see a comprehensive background on any who do enter to assure us that terrorists do not enter.
 

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Good I agree with those who are persecuted providing they can prove that they are and not terrorists. I don't want to ban entry but would like to see a comprehensive background on any who do enter to assure us that terrorists do not enter.

Are you afraid that there will be terrorists among the refugees?
 

psalms 91

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Are you afraid that there will be terrorists among the refugees?
The fact that there are is already a given, they need seperated out
 

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psalms 91

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I believe ISIS has made that claim and lets face it when you have over a million people coming out it is bound to happen. If you want to play around with it and prove me wrong then let them all in your country and lets see how that works out in a year
 

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I believe ISIS has made that claim and lets face it when you have over a million people coming out it is bound to happen. If you want to play around with it and prove me wrong then let them all in your country and lets see how that works out in a year

There are about 1 million in Germany and as far as I have seen none of them has yet perpetrated a terrorist act in Germany.
 

psalms 91

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Perhaps they are waiting for America, just because they havent acted yet proves nothing, only comprehensive background checks will
 

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Perhaps they are waiting for America, just because they haven't acted yet proves nothing, only comprehensive background checks will

The USA is not the intended destination of the one million who went to Germany.
 

psalms 91

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Time will tell
 
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