Are Christians justified by works?

[NathanH83]

Or are we justified by faith alone?

 

[Josiah]

We ARE justified by works. Just not our own.

Relying ("faith") in who did apprehends such and means we are justified.

Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide as one truth. It is the Christian Gospel, it is the Christian religion.



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[Andrew]

Works is evidence of Faith

 

[brian100]

Jesus said there was 2 sons.. one stood in front of Church and said yes and refused to go to the vineyard. The other said no, and then went to the vineyard.

The vineyard is to other faiths.

Then Jesus said if you only believeth in him you will die like Lazarus and have to wait. But those who liveth and believeth shall never die.

2:42

 

[NewCreation435]

Works is evidence of Faith

I was just getting ready to say much the same thing

 

[brian100]

Faith is evidence of belief. Working the vineyard is evidence of love.

 

[Lamb]

Faith is evidence of belief. Working the vineyard is evidence of love.

But what justifies us is Jesus. That's why what we do does not give us Jesus. Faith grasps onto Jesus which is why we're justified by faith and not by works, lest anyone boast.

 

[Josiah]

But what justifies us is Jesus.

Absolutely! Which is why Jesus is the Savior. Scripture would not refer to HIM as the Savior if He didn't save anyone, Scripture would call US the Savior (of self anyway) if self saves self by what self does.


While the Bible itself speaks of being saved "by grace" and "by Jesus" and "by faith" actually all 3 of these are aspects of justification. Theology expresses this as one, inseparable truth: SOLA GRATIA - SOLUS CHRISTUS - SOLA FIDE (by the unmerited favor/gifts of God - through the life/death/resurrection of Christ as THE one and only, all sufficient Savior - which is apprehended by faith). John 3:16, "For God loved the world so that He gave His only-begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life." All this is God's work, for God is our Savior, not self. All other religions argue that "God helps those who help themselves" so that no Savior is needed - just lots of divine help, lots of time, and perhaps a good example/model/teacher. Christianity is unique in that Christianity argues we need to be RESCUED, SAVED and we can't do it, God must. And did.

Now, once justified (in this narrow or initial sense), once we are His own, we are Called by God to great things (as most parents call their children). To be holy as God is. To be as perfect as God is. To be as loving as God is. And much more. But these are not what "saves" or justifies or enlivens us, this is what is called for BECAUSE we are spiritually alive, BECAUSE we are His own. I'm alive.... and so I should be a moral, responsible, contributing person but being so is not why I have life, it's my having life that means I should be those things.




To the question: YES, we are saved by works. The question is this: WHOSE? If it's MINE then I'm the Savior. If it's JESUS' then He is the Savior. And if it's a mixture, then self is the PART Savior and Jesus is the PART Savior (but likely, Jesus has the part that actually doesn't save anyone).





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[Jason76]

A life of strong sincere daily prayer result in works which justify, but they are works done by Christ - which seem to be done by us to people.

 

[brian100]

Going to Church and saying yes to God is like these Pharasee standing there all day with their faith. But if they went out and helped people find God. . that would be working the vineyard.

 

[Andrew]

Going to Church and saying yes to God is like these Pharasee standing there all day with their faith. But if they went out and helped people find God. . that would be working the vineyard.

Or entertaining angels unawares, not letting your right hand know what the left is doing.
There are people who get a good feeling when they record themselves helping people, that's being boastful, Jesus went around healing people and telling them not to tell anyone.. big difference.
I agree with you about the vineyard

 

[NathanH83]

Going to Church and saying yes to God is like these Pharasee standing there all day with their faith. But if they went out and helped people find God. . that would be working the vineyard.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1 John 4:17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 John 4:17&version=AKJV

 

[NathanH83]

Absolutely! Which is why Jesus is the Savior. Scripture would not refer to HIM as the Savior if He didn't save anyone, Scripture would call US the Savior (of self anyway) if self saves self by what self does.


While the Bible itself speaks of being saved "by grace" and "by Jesus" and "by faith" actually all 3 of these are aspects of justification. Theology expresses this as one, inseparable truth: SOLA GRATIA - SOLUS CHRISTUS - SOLA FIDE (by the unmerited favor/gifts of God - through the life/death/resurrection of Christ as THE one and only, all sufficient Savior - which is apprehended by faith). John 3:16, "For God loved the world so that He gave His only-begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life." All this is God's work, for God is our Savior, not self. All other religions argue that "God helps those who help themselves" so that no Savior is needed - just lots of divine help, lots of time, and perhaps a good example/model/teacher. Christianity is unique in that Christianity argues we need to be RESCUED, SAVED and we can't do it, God must. And did.

Now, once justified (in this narrow or initial sense), once we are His own, we are Called by God to great things (as most parents call their children). To be holy as God is. To be as perfect as God is. To be as loving as God is. And much more. But these are not what "saves" or justifies or enlivens us, this is what is called for BECAUSE we are spiritually alive, BECAUSE we are His own. I'm alive.... and so I should be a moral, responsible, contributing person but being so is not why I have life, it's my having life that means I should be those things.




To the question: YES, we are saved by works. The question is this: WHOSE? If it's MINE then I'm the Savior. If it's JESUS' then He is the Savior. And if it's a mixture, then self is the PART Savior and Jesus is the PART Savior (but likely, Jesus has the part that actually doesn't save anyone).





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Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:24 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=James 2:24&version=AKJV

 

[NathanH83]

But what justifies us is Jesus. That's why what we do does not give us Jesus. Faith grasps onto Jesus which is why we're justified by faith and not by works, lest anyone boast.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:24 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=James 2:24&version=AKJV

 

[brian100]

2 sons parable. Just standing in front of church with nothing but faith?

 

[Lamb]

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:24 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=James 2:24&version=AKJV

Context is key. Pulling one verse and ignoring others in all of scripture will lead you down a path or works righteousness. Jesus Saves. You can't do that. Your works won't get you to heaven.

 

[Josiah]

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:24 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=James 2:24&version=AKJV

Wrong. James is simply using the word "justify" in it's broader sense, to include all soteriology. If you read my post above, you'll see that I agree with James, OUR works are necessary, they simply are not what gives to us spiritual life/initial justification, making Jesus not the Savior but rather self.

Remember: James is writing to people ALREADY justified in the narrow/initial sense, they are ALREADY Christians. The whole book is written to the already saved, the already Christians, simply reminding them that we are NOT therefore exempt from the Law and works, indeed we are called to perfect holiness, righteousness and love. James is addressing sanctification, the need for those who are His own to live accordingly; he is NOT saying that Jesus is not the Savior, that Jesus doesn't save, that each saves self by what self does (making Jesus a joke or at best the OFFERER of salvation but not the Savior).



I reject your theology that Jesus isn't the Savior. I believe that Jesus is the Savior. Scripture would not refer to HIM as the Savior if He didn't save anyone, Scripture would call US the Savior (of self anyway) if self saves self by what self does.

While the Bible itself speaks of being saved "by grace" and "by Jesus" and "by faith" actually all 3 of these are aspects of justification. Theology expresses this as one, inseparable truth: SOLA GRATIA - SOLUS CHRISTUS - SOLA FIDE (by the unmerited favor/gifts of God - through the life/death/resurrection of Christ as THE one and only, all sufficient Savior - which is apprehended by faith). John 3:16, "For God loved the world so that He gave His only-begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life." All this is God's work, for God is our Savior, not self. All other religions argue that "God helps those who help themselves" so that no Savior is needed - just lots of divine help, lots of time, and perhaps a good example/model/teacher. Christianity is unique in that Christianity argues we need to be RESCUED, SAVED and we can't do it, God must. And did.

Now, once justified (in this narrow or initial sense), once we are His own, we are Called by God to great things (as most parents call their children). To be holy as God is. To be as perfect as God is. To be as loving as God is. And much more. But these are not what "saves" or initially justifies or enlivens us, this is what is called for BECAUSE we are spiritually alive, BECAUSE we are His own. I'm alive.... and so I should be a moral, responsible, contributing person but being so is not why I have life, it's my having life that means I should be those things.




To the question: YES, we are saved by works. The question is this: WHOSE? If it's MINE then I'm the Savior. If it's JESUS' then He is the Savior. And if it's a mixture, then self is the PART Savior and Jesus is the PART Savior (but likely, Jesus has the part that actually doesn't save anyone).






.

 

[brian100]

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works.

 

[Josiah]

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works.

.... doesn't say He will justify those who don't need it.

... doesn't say we save ourselves by our own works (so that Jesus is a joke, Jesus saves no one).


Answer this question: Who is the Savior?
If it's you, then it's not Jesus.
If it's Jesus, then it's not you.


Now, no one is saying OUR works are irrelevant to ANYTHING. No one says that OUR works are optional. No one says that OUR works will not be rewarded or our sins not exposed. It's just that Christianity says that OUR works are not why we are saved, making Jesus irrelevant or perhaps something important (offerer, empowerer, educator, etc) just not the Savior.




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[brian100]

Well if I decoded the Shroud or Turin I'll probably get to heaven before you guys?