"Apocrypha" & The Gospel: Comparison Study #01

Andrew

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THE BOOK OF WISDOM
HOLY AND DIVINE SCRIPTURE?
Wisdom 2:12-20
"Let us lie in wait for the righteous man, because he is inconvenient to us and opposes our actions; he reproaches us for sins against the law, and accuses us of sins against our training. He professes to have knowledge of God, and calls himself a child of the Lord. He became to us a reproof of our thoughts; the very sight of him is a burden to us, because his manner of life is unlike that of others, and his ways are strange. We are considered by him as something base, and he avoids our ways as unclean; he calls the last end of the righteous happy, and boasts that God is his father. Let us see if his words are true, and let us test what will happen at the end of his life; for if the righteous man is God's son, he will help him, and will deliver him from the hand of his adversaries. Let us test him with insult and torture, that we may find out how gentle he is, and make trial of his forbearance. Let us condemn him to a shameful death, for, according to what he says, he will be protected."

Wisdom 2:12
"Let us lie in wait for the righteous man, because he is inconvenient to us and opposes our actions; he reproaches us for sins against the law, and accuses us of sins against our training."

Matthew 23:23..27-28
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faith; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others"... Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity."
John 7:19-20
"Did not Moses give you the law? Yet none of you keeps the law. Why do you seek to kill me?"
Matt. 26:3-4
"Then the chief priests and the elders of the people gathered in the palace of the high priest, who was called Ca'iaphas, and took counsel together in order to arrest Jesus by stealth and kill him"

Wisdom 2:13:
"He professes to have knowledge of God, and calls himself a child of the Lord."

John 8:55
"But you have not known him (the Father); I know him. If I said, I do not know him, I should be a liar like you; but I do know him and I keep his word."
John 3:18:
"He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God"
John 5:25
"Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."

Wisdom 2:14:
"He became to us a reproof of our thoughts"


Matthew 9:4:
" But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, "Why do you think evil in your hearts? "
Luke 6:7-11
"And the scribes and the Pharisees watched him, to see whether he would heal on the Sabbath, so that they might find an accusation against him. But he knew their thoughts, and he said to the man who had the withered hand, "Come and stand here." And he rose and stood there. And Jesus said to them, "I ask you, is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do harm, to save life or to destroy it?" And he looked around on them all, and said to him, "Stretch out your hand." And he did so, and his hand was restored. But they were filled with fury and discussed with one another what they might do to Jesus."

Wisdom 2:15:
"the very sight of him is a burden to us, because his manner of life is unlike that of others, and his ways are strange."

Matthew 15:1-6
"Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, "Why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat." He answered them, "And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? For God commanded, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die. But you say, 'If any one tells his father or his mother, What you would have gained from me is given to God, he need not honor his father ' So, for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God"
Mark 3:1-6
" Again he entered the synagogue, and a man was there who had a withered hand. And they watched him, to see whether he would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse him. And he said to the man who had the withered hand, "Come here." And he said to them, "Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do harm, to save life or to kill?" But they were silent. And he looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, and said to the man, "Stretch out your hand."
He stretched it out, and his hand was restored. The Pharisees went out, and immediately held counsel with the Hero'di-ans against him, how to destroy him."
Luke 5:21-26
And the scribes and the Pharisees began to question, saying, "Who is this that speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God only? When Jesus perceived their questionings, he answered them, "Why do you question in your hearts? Which is easier, to say, 'Your sins are forgiven you,' or to say, 'Rise and walk'? But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" -he said to the man who was paralyzed- "I say to you, rise, take up your bed and go home." And immediately he rose before them, and took up that on which he lay, and went home, glorifying God. And amazement seized them all, and they glorified God and were filled with awe, saying, "We have seen strange things today."

Wisdom 2:16:
"We are considered by him as something base, and he avoids our ways as unclean; he calls the last end ofthe righteous happy, and boasts that God is his father."


Luke 11:39
"And the Lord said to him, "Now you Pharisees cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside you are full of extortion and wickedness. You fools! Did not he who made the outside make the inside also? But give for alms those things which are within; and behold, everything is clean for you."
Matthew. 5:10:
"Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven"
Luke 10:22
"All things have been delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

Wisdom 2:17-20
"Let us see if his words are true, and let us test what will happen at the end of his life; for if the righteous man is God's son, he will help him, and will deliver him from the hand of his adversaries. Let us test him with insult and torture, that we may find out how gentle he is, and make trial of his forbearance.Let us condemn him to a shameful death, for, according to what he says, he will be protected."

Matthew 27:41-43
"So also the chief priests, with the scribes and elders, mocked him, saying: "He saved others; he cannot save himself. He is the King of Israel; let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.
He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he desires him; for he said, 'I am the Son of God."
 

Josiah

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@Andy

I read the opening post but I have not a clue what your point is....

No idea how this substantiates your many, many claims... among them....

The Apostles declared what is and is not canonical Scripture...

All books found in all Bibles are equal....

"The Church" "Christianity" "Christians" declared what is and is not canonical Scripture...

"Protestantism" declared what is and is not canonical Scripture...

There is ONE set of "Apocrypha" books (always the same corpus)....

Every Bible among Christians contained EXACTLY THE SAME material from 300-1800....

The American Bible Society is The Authoritative Ruling Body for Protestantism, what it says is therefore what Protestantism says.

Jude states that the Book of Enoch is Scripture....

Lutherans especially discourage the reading of "them"....

I (Josiah) am THE "prime example" of one who discourages the reading of "them"..

I (Josiah) rejects the Bible of Luther (although I have and use one)...

I (Josiah) am a "neo-Lutheran" who is apathetic toward the movement of the" Protestant Deformation"
(Whatever that gobbledygook means)

and many more...

Yesterday, you claim that you have retracted this one: Protestantism "ripped out" some unidentified books .... Great. I'm waiting for yiu to please provide the thread name and post number of that retraction.



.
 

Andrew

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@Andy

Not a clue what your point is....

No idea how this substantiates your many, many claims... among them....
If you had the ability to discern prophecy you would have a clue to my point.

No idea how your denials substantiates your many, many rejections to the claims... this being among them....
 

Lanman87

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In the inter-testament period they were looking for the Messiah and were well aware of the Prophecies in the Old Testament. It is no wonder we find New Testament allusions in the inter-testament writings. They were longing for the Messiah and had a basic understanding of prophecy from the Old Testament Scriptures. Wisdom is not the only book to do this. Several of the books and fragments in the Dead Sea Scrolls talk about the coming "Son of God". The fact that a righteous person is coming, that he will judge people for their sin, that he will be the "Son of God" and will be rejected by the people can all be found in the Hebrew Old Testament writings and were used as a basis for the inter-testament writings.

Also, if you go looking for prophecy or allusion it is pretty easy to find. We can do similar things with Enoch (these are just a few of many allusions of Enoch in the New Testament)

Enoch 48:4

4. He shall be the hope of those whose hearts are troubled. All, who dwell on earth, shall fall down and worship before him; shall bless and glorify him, and sing praises to the name of the Lord of spirits.

(
John 14:1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.)

(Phil 2:10-11, So that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. )

Enoch 62:11 In his judgments he pays no respect to persons; and we must depart from his presence, on account of our evil deeds.

(Acts 10:34 KJV Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: )
 

Andrew

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In the inter-testament period they were looking for the Messiah and were well aware of the Prophecies in the Old Testament. It is no wonder we find New Testament allusions in the inter-testament writings. They were longing for the Messiah and had a basic understanding of prophecy from the Old Testament Scriptures. Wisdom is not the only book to do this. Several of the books and fragments in the Dead Sea Scrolls talk about the coming "Son of God". The fact that a righteous person is coming, that he will judge people for their sin, that he will be the "Son of God" and will be rejected by the people can all be found in the Hebrew Old Testament writings and were used as a basis for the inter-testament writings.

Also, if you go looking for prophecy or allusion it is pretty easy to find. We can do similar things with Enoch (these are just a few of many allusions of Enoch in the New Testament)

Enoch 48:4

4. He shall be the hope of those whose hearts are troubled. All, who dwell on earth, shall fall down and worship before him; shall bless and glorify him, and sing praises to the name of the Lord of spirits.

(
John 14:1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.)

(Phil 2:10-11, So that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. )

Enoch 62:11 In his judgments he pays no respect to persons; and we must depart from his presence, on account of our evil deeds.

(Acts 10:34 KJV Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: )

That is not the case with this passage!

Wisdom outlines in VERY specific detail, the conspiracy of the unrighteous to take hold the Son of God and condemn Him to death by Crucifixion and see if God will save him!

Let us lie in wait for the righteous man which is exactly what the chief priests did when Jesus was arrested and brought to them, to condemn him to a shameful death (crucifixion was a torturous and humiliating method of execution while being public shamed).
  • because he is inconvenient to us
  • opposes our actions
  • reproaches us for sins against the law
  • accuses us of sins against our training
  • boasts that God is his father
...Let us see if his words are true, and let us test what will happen at the end of his life; for if the righteous man is God's son, he will help him, and will deliver him from the hand of his adversaries.

Let us test him with insult and torture, that we may find out how gentle he is, and make trial of his forbearance. Let us condemn him to a shameful death, for, according to what he says, he will be protected."
 

Andrew

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@Andy

I read the opening post but I have not a clue what your point is....

No idea how this substantiates your many, many claims... among them....

The Apostles declared what is and is not canonical Scripture...

All books found in all Bibles are equal....

"The Church" "Christianity" "Christians" declared what is and is not canonical Scripture...

"Protestantism" declared what is and is not canonical Scripture...

There is ONE set of "Apocrypha" books (always the same corpus)....

Every Bible among Christians contained EXACTLY THE SAME material from 300-1800....

The American Bible Society is The Authoritative Ruling Body for Protestantism, what it says is therefore what Protestantism says.

Jude states that the Book of Enoch is Scripture....

Lutherans especially discourage the reading of "them"....

I (Josiah) am THE "prime example" of one who discourages the reading of "them"..

I (Josiah) rejects the Bible of Luther (although I have and use one)...

I (Josiah) am a "neo-Lutheran" who is apathetic toward the movement of the" Protestant Deformation"
(Whatever that gobbledygook means)

and many more...

Yesterday, you claim that you have retracted this one: Protestantism "ripped out" some unidentified books .... Great. I'm waiting for yiu to please provide the thread name and post number of that retraction.



.
Nope. I did and you didnt see it, look for it and stop copying and pasting your defunct list.
I'll give you a hint, its a looooooong post I made, and you posted right after that with your list, and I posted after your post and told you that I literally had posted in the post before yours where I retracted the labeling of you as a Neo Lutheran.

You dont listen!
You just copy and paste copy and paste copy and paste copy and paste copy and pastw copy and paste copy and paste copy and paste copy and pastw copy and paste copy and paste copy and paste copy and pastw copy and paste copy and paste copy and paste copy and paste copy and paste copy and paste copy and paste copy and pastw copy and paste copy and paste copy and paste copy and pastw copy and paste copy and paste copy and paste copy and pastw copy and paste copy and paste copy and paste...
 

Albion

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@Andy

I read the opening post but I have not a clue what your point is....
Apparently, he thinks that any writing that talks about God or the history of the Hebrew peoples must, for that reason, be divine revelation.

Let's hope he doesn't switch to arguing how the Book of Mormon must also be part of the Bible!
 

Andrew

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Apparently, he thinks that any writing that talks about God or the history of the Hebrew peoples must, for that reason, be divine revelation.

Let's hope he doesn't switch to arguing how the Book of Mormon must also be part of the Bible!
DENIAL

The prophecy is bolder than any other book in the OT concerning the NT testimony of His crucifixion, it came to pass, thus proving that it was truly prophetic and divine.

If you want to stay in denial about that fact because you fear scrutiny from copypaste Josiah or fear of humiliation by all means do what makes you feel safe.

This prophecy is considered to be so bold that it was even being considered to be in the NT canon because it was written less than a hundred years before Jesus was even born. Its so bold of prophecy that secular scholars claim it was written aftwr the fact because its just too accurate, as they do with the book of Daniel
 
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Josiah

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you didnt see it


True. I don't see how post #1 confirms any of the following as true:

The Apostles declared what is and is not canonical Scripture...

All books found in all Bibles are equal....

"The Church" "Christianity" "Christians" declared what is and is not canonical Scripture...

"Protestantism" declared what is and is not canonical Scripture...

There is ONE set of "Apocrypha" books (always the same corpus)....

Every Bible among Christians contained EXACTLY THE SAME material from 300-1800....

The American Bible Society is The Authoritative Ruling Body for Protestantism, what it says is therefore what Protestantism says.

Jude states that the Book of Enoch is Scripture....

Lutherans especially discourage the reading of "them"....

I (Josiah) am THE "prime example" of one who discourages the reading of "them"..

I (Josiah) rejects the Bible of Luther (although I have and use one)...

I (Josiah) am a "neo-Lutheran" who is apathetic toward the movement of the" Protestant Deformation"
(Whatever that gobbledygook means)

and many, many more...




.


 
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Andrew

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True. I don't see how post #1 confirms any of the following as true:

The Apostles declared what is and is not canonical Scripture...

All books found in all Bibles are equal....

"The Church" "Christianity" "Christians" declared what is and is not canonical Scripture...

"Protestantism" declared what is and is not canonical Scripture...

There is ONE set of "Apocrypha" books (always the same corpus)....

Every Bible among Christians contained EXACTLY THE SAME material from 300-1800....

The American Bible Society is The Authoritative Ruling Body for Protestantism, what it says is therefore what Protestantism says.

Jude states that the Book of Enoch is Scripture....

Lutherans especially discourage the reading of "them"....

I (Josiah) am THE "prime example" of one who discourages the reading of "them"..

I (Josiah) rejects the Bible of Luther (although I have and use one)...

I (Josiah) am a "neo-Lutheran" who is apathetic toward the movement of the" Protestant Deformation"
(Whatever that gobbledygook means)

and many, many more...




.
This is a NON DEBATE Bible Study, if you hate this BIBLICAL BOOK then keep it to yourself! Your post is NOT relevant to the Study, you can message me the list and we can discuss this, but for public record IT IS A CORRUPT LIST WITH FALSE CLAIMS AND CLAIMS EITHER ADDRESSED OR RETRACTED!

Sad I cannot even hold a Bible Study on Wisdom without you sabotaging my comparison of scriptures with your hostility of the Apocrypha, your truly are anti Apocrypha, get out of this non debate study, the others here are at least discussing scripture!
 

Lamb

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For the future, if you're going to post in the Bible Study a topic that's hot on the site then you should add a disclaimer to your OP. Otherwise, this type of thing is going to be expected to happen.
 

Albion

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DENIAL

The prophecy is bolder than any other book in the OT concerning the NT testimony of His crucifixion, it came to pass, thus proving that it was truly prophetic and divine.

No, that would NOT prove it to be of divine origin.

Lots of predictions made by men have come true, sometimes with reasons that are known and sometimes without explanation, but the prediction coming true does NOT make the writing be the word of God such as the Bible books are.
 

Albion

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This is a NON DEBATE Bible Study, if you hate this BIBLICAL BOOK then keep it to yourself!
Talk about "non debate!" You invited a debate by claiming to make uninspired writings from the past be Bible books instead.

First, we had you claiming that these writings had always been IN the Bible; then you were forced by the facts of history to reduce that to saying a few early church leaders you favor had treated them as such; and now you are merely claiming that they are the word of God...on your own authority.
😒
 

Lanman87

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The prophecy is bolder than any other book in the OT concerning the NT testimony of His crucifixion, it came to pass, thus proving that it was truly prophetic and divine.

The person or persons who wrote the Book of Wisdom had access to the Hebrew Old Testament books. I'm sure they sat around the fire and pondered the coming messiah and read and re-read the The Psalms, Jeremiah, Samuel, Ezekiel, and all the prophets.

Everything from Wisdom in this passage can be gleaned from Old Testament scripture.

It was common knowledge among the Jews that the Messiah would come and judge the World, would be a righteous person, would be called the son of God, would be rejected and would be killed. It was all in their Religious Text.

The writer of Wisdom wrote a summary of the common knowledge and understanding of inter testament Jews. He complied and repeated the old testament prophecies. This is not "NEW prophecy" it is an restatement and interpretation of OLD prophecies.

Here are few examples of many:

For He is coming, for He is coming to judge the earth.
He shall judge the world with righteousness,
And the peoples with His truth. Psalm 96:13

Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel. Is 7:14

“I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, ‘Thou art My Son,Today I have begotten Thee. Psalm 2:7

Psalm 22:7-8a: “Everyone who sees me mocks me, they sneer and shake their heads saying, Is this the One who relies on God? Then let the Lord save Him!”
 

Origen

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In the inter-testament period they were looking for the Messiah and were well aware of the Prophecies in the Old Testament. It is no wonder we find New Testament allusions in the inter-testament writings. They were longing for the Messiah and had a basic understanding of prophecy from the Old Testament Scriptures. Wisdom is not the only book to do this. Several of the books and fragments in the Dead Sea Scrolls talk about the coming "Son of God". The fact that a righteous person is coming, that he will judge people for their sin, that he will be the "Son of God" and will be rejected by the people can all be found in the Hebrew Old Testament writings and were used as a basis for the inter-testament writings.
That is an excellent point. I could not agree more. Messianism was a major reoccurring theme in the second temple period literature.

Take this example from the Testament of Judah 24:1-6.

"And after these things a star will arise to you from Jacob in peace, and a man will arise from my seed, like the sun of righteousness, coming along with the sons of men in gentleness and righteousness, and no sin will be found in him. And the heavens will be open to him, to pour out the blessing of the spirit of the Holy Father. And he will pour out the spirit of grace upon you, and you will be sons in truth to him, and you will walk in his commands from first and last. This branch of God most high, and this fountain gives life to all flesh. Then the scepter of my kingdom will shine brightly. And from your root a stem will be born. And from it will grow a rod of righteousness to the nations, to judge and to save all who call on the Lord."

The messianic language is obvious. Many of these same ideas and terms are echoed in the New Testament. And this is by no means an isolated example. There are dozens of them within the literature.
 

Andrew

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That is an excellent point. I could not agree more. Messianism was a major reoccurring theme in the second temple period literature.

Take this example from the Testament of Judah 24:1-6.

"And after these things a star will arise to you from Jacob in peace, and a man will arise from my seed, like the sun of righteousness, coming along with the sons of men in gentleness and righteousness, and no sin will be found in him. And the heavens will be open to him, to pour out the blessing of the spirit of the Holy Father. And he will pour out the spirit of grace upon you, and you will be sons in truth to him, and you will walk in his commands from first and last. This branch of God most high, and this fountain gives life to all flesh. Then the scepter of my kingdom will shine brightly. And from your root a stem will be born. And from it will grow a rod of righteousness to the nations, to judge and to save all who call on the Lord."

The messianic language is obvious. Many of these same ideas and terms are echoed in the New Testament. And this is by no means an isolated example. There are dozens of them within the literature.
These aren't bold prophecy, these things were already known prophecy. Wisdom was concerning things unknown as to the details of the conspiracy against Christ and his death, and during his death asking "if God truly is his father than he will help him", I mean come on, this is far more bolder than the suffering servant in Isaiah
 

Lanman87

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And He will glorify the pious on the throne of the eternal Kingdom, He who liberates the captives, restores sight to the blind, straightens the b[ent] And f[or] ever I will clea[ve to the h]opeful and in His mercy … And the fr[uit …] will not be delayed for anyone and the Lord will accomplish glorious things which have never been as [He …] For He will heal the wounded, and revive the dead and bring good news to the poor.

Messianic Apocalypse (4Q521) found in the Dead Sea Scrolls
 

Andrew

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And He will glorify the pious on the throne of the eternal Kingdom, He who liberates the captives, restores sight to the blind, straightens the b[ent] And f[or] ever I will clea[ve to the h]opeful and in His mercy … And the fr[uit …] will not be delayed for anyone and the Lord will accomplish glorious things which have never been as [He …] For He will heal the wounded, and revive the dead and bring good news to the poor.

Messianic Apocalypse (4Q521) found in the Dead Sea Scrolls
Yes these are a series of quotes found in Isaiah from the Septuagint and other old testament books... Wisdom shows us an event that the Son of God will be condemned to a shameful death and if God truly is his father he will help him.
 

Lanman87

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Wisdom shows us an event that the Son of God will be condemned to a shameful death and if God truly is his father he will help him.
A couple of thoughts:

First,

The fact He will be condemned to a shameful death is prevalent in the Old Testament. All you have to do is read Isaiah 52 and 53 to get a picture of His chastisement, suffering, and death

As many were astonished at you—
his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance,
and his form beyond that of the children of mankind
— Isaiah 52:14

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent,
so he opened not his mouth.
Isaiah 53:7

And, Matthew 27:41-43

41 So also the chief priests, with the scribes and elders, mocked him, saying, 42 “He saved others; he cannot save himself. He is the King of Israel; let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he desires him. For he said, ‘I am the Son of God. Matthew 27:41-43

is a fulfillment of Psalm 22:7-8

All who see me mock me;
they make mouths at me; they wag their heads;
“He trusts in the Lord; let him deliver him;
let him rescue him, for he delights in him!


Second,

The "Prophecy" in Wisdom says

Let us see if his words are true, and let us test what will happen at the end of his life; for if the righteous man is God's son, he will help him, and will deliver him from the hand of his adversaries. Let us test him with insult and torture, that we may find out how gentle he is, and make trial of his forbearance. Let us condemn him to a shameful death, for, according to what he says, he will be protected."

Once again Isaiah says

Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted
. 53:4

Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him;
he has put him to grief;[g]
when his soul makes[h] an offering for guilt,
he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. 53:10

What the New Testament and Isaiah describe is not Christ being protected by the Father. God the Father didn't come down and save Christ life at the last minute and deliver Him from his adversaries, which in this case are the wicked who insult, torture, and condemn him to death. The Father did deliver Christ from Satan (His ultimate adversary) by raising Him from the grave. But this passage is talking about "us" not Satan.

Instead we see Christ praying that "This cup to be taken from me" Luke 22:42

Then Christ is arrested, beaten and hung on a cross.

Then just before Christ dies he cries out “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46

If Wisdom is saying that Christ will be protected from a shameful death by the Father, (which is what it appears to be saying) then Wisdom is wrong.

Christ did die a shameful death and, in some way that I don't pretend to understand, was forsaken by the God. crushed by the Lord, and smitten by God (not protected by the Father as Wisdom says will happen).

It was after His shameful death that He overcome death and the grave by rising again.
 
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