All About Faith

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YourTruthGod

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I would like to discuss faith with others here.

If someone has anything against what I say, let them give their argument and scriptures.

Where does faith come from?

How do we get it?
 

MoreCoffee

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I would like to discuss faith with others here.

If someone has anything against what I say, let them give their argument and scriptures.

Where does faith come from?

How do we get it?

Faith comes from hearing the word of Christ. That, by the way, is a quote from saint Paul's letter to the Christians in Rome. :)
 

YourTruthGod

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Jesus taught faith.

Mark 11:22 “Have faith in God,” Jesus answered.

Luke 5:20 When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”

Luke 7:50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Luke 8:48 "Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace."

Luke 17:19 Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith has made you well!"

Luke 18:42 "Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith has healed you."


Nowhere does Jesus say he puts a spark of faith in us, or regenerates us first with the Holy Spirit to give us faith.
 

YourTruthGod

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Faith comes from hearing the word of Christ. That, by the say, is a quote from saint Paul's letter to the Christians in Rome. :)

I think that we have much agreement in this area.
 

MoreCoffee

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I think that we have much agreement in this area.

That'll be because I am a Catholic and Catholics take holy scripture seriously and to heart. Some like to pretend otherwise and say all sorts of terrible things about the Catholic Church because they love their Protestant traditions more than they love the truth and many who say such terrible things know next to nothing that is accurate and truthful about the Catholic Church. So in recent times in this Forum I decided to stop trying to explain Catholic teaching and just watch whoever wants to say whatever negative things they feel like and restrict my comments to gainsaying their errors :p
 

YourTruthGod

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That'll be because I am a Catholic and Catholics take holy scripture seriously and to heart. Some like to pretend otherwise and say all sorts of terrible things about the Catholic Church because they love their Protestant traditions more than they love the truth and many who say such terrible things know next to nothing that is accurate and truthful about the Catholic Church. So in recent times in this Forum I decided to stop trying to explain Catholic teaching and just watch whoever wants to say whatever negative things they feel like and restrict my comments to gainsaying their errors :p

I do go against things the Catholics do, but we can get along in this thread for a while. lol What say you?
 

YourTruthGod

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I wasn't going to give a "wall" of scriptures, as someone wants told me that I do.

But I have decided that this is a thread on faith and why not give a lot of scriptures to the serious believer to think about?

More teachings from Jesus on believing:


Matthew 9:28 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied.

Matthew 18:6 [ Causing to Stumble ] “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Mark 1:15 “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”

Mark 5:36 Overhearing what they said, Jesus told him, “Don’t be afraid; just believe.”

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Luke 8:12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

John 1:7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe.

John 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

John 2:23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name.

John 3:15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

John 4:39 [ Many Samaritans Believe ] Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.”

...and so many, many more.

Mark 11:22 “Have faith in God,” Jesus answered.

Luke 5:20 When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”

Luke 7:50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Luke 12:28 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you—you of little faith!

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”

John 12:42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue;

Acts 3:16 By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus’ name and the faith that comes through him that has completely healed him, as you can all see.

Acts 6:5 This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism.

Acts 6:7 So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.


These scripture prove that Jesus taught believe/faith.

Nowhere do any scriptures says Jesus put faith/belief in anyone as a spark, or with the Holy Spirit regeneration.
 

Albion

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That'll be because I am a Catholic and Catholics take holy scripture seriously and to heart. Some like to pretend otherwise and say all sorts of terrible things about the Catholic Church because they love their Protestant traditions more than they love the truth and many who say such terrible things know next to nothing that is accurate and truthful about the Catholic Church.

Kind of funny to have anyone say that, especially a Roman Catholic, considering that time and time again Catholics on these forums have argued precisely the opposite--that it is not Scripture but Traditions instead that matter, and also that the Bible itself is just the product of Tradition, meaning that the Bible is secondary to it.
 

YourTruthGod

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We can see from the scriptures that Jesus taught to believe in him, to have faith in him. To have faith and to believe are the same thing.

Nowhere anywhere do the scriptures say Jesus put a spark in them to have belief/faith.

Nowhere anywhere do the scriptures say Jesus regenerated people with the Holy Spirit to cause them to be able to have belief/faith.

If we can all agree on this, it would be a great thing.
 

YourTruthGod

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Here is some more on faith that rebukes people who claim we can't have faith unless it is given without our doing.



Matthew 8:10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.


Jesus said he had not found such great faith in Israel. Do you think Jesus gave that man such great faith and then acted amazed by it?


Matthew 15:28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.



Do you think Jesus gave that woman great faith and is accrediting it to her in error?



Abraham HAD FAITH.
Abraham’s faith was ACCREDITED TO him.



Romans 4:11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.


We have to have faith like Abraham did.


Romans 4:16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.


We get credit for our faith.

1 Peter 1:7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.


James 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!


Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.



So God just gives some people faith to please Him because He knows no one has faith?



Mark 9:23 And Jesus said to him, “‘If you can’! All things are possible for one who believes.”



But if no one can believe why would Jesus teach to believe?
 
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Albion

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To have faith and to believe are not the same thing, however. The Bible itself rather famously explains that point.
 

YourTruthGod

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To have faith and to believe are not the same thing, however. The Bible itself rather famously explains that point.

I have just proven with scriptures that it is the same. All you did was deny. Denial is no defense.

You can still try to prove your beliefs with scripture and logical argument.

I would really like that.
 

MoreCoffee

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Kind of funny to have anyone say that, especially a Roman Catholic, considering that time and time again Catholics on these forums have argued precisely the opposite--that it is not Scripture but Traditions instead that matter, and also that the Bible itself is just the product of Tradition, meaning that the Bible is secondary to it.

I'd reply with something interesting if what you wrote was even near the truth but because it is so distorted and so inaccurate i'll just say that it is rubbish.
 

MoreCoffee

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I do go against things the Catholics do, but we can get along in this thread for a while. lol What say you?

Mostly I get along well with anybody willing to deal truthfully with me. I do not really care much what you think needs to be corrected in Catholic doings as long as you are willing to check the facts and debate the issue rather than rely on rumours and other unreliable sources for your "proofs against Catholicism". Here in CH poorly remembered lessons in school without supportive documentation form the bulk of the material used to critique Catholic teaching and practise and when it is not taken from such questionable sources as those already mentioned then some remarks about what some unnamed Catholic allegedly said or did or some reference to a car park celebration becomes the source for accusations that would be funny but for the harm that they do. But in your case most of what you've written is not especially egregious even though I have noticed some errors in your statements about Catholicism. You are newish here and I am a forgiving soul ;) So we'll get along just fine I hope.
 

Josiah

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Where does faith come from?


God.

Ephesians 2:8-9, 1 Corinthians 12:3





How do we get it?


We CAN get it any way God desires.... John the Baptist got it before He was even born. But typically, it comes via Word and Sacrament.

John 17:20, Romans 10:17, Titus 3:5






Nowhere do any scriptures says Jesus put faith/belief in anyone as a spark, or with the Holy Spirit regeneration.


Scripture says faith is a GIFT and comes from the Holy Spirit. There is no Scripture that says dead, unregenerate atheists give faith to self.... or that faith is unrelated to regeneration.





Blessings on your Holy Week commemoration.



- Josiah




.




.
 
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Albion

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I have just proven with scriptures that it is the same. All you did was deny. Denial is no defense.

You can still try to prove your beliefs with scripture and logical argument.

I would really like that.

I see my mistake now. It was to assume a familiarity with Scripture on the part of the reader, or at least a willingness to look into the matter.

Interestingly enough, you cited James 2:19 previously without understanding the meaning.

”Do you believe that there is only one God? Good! The demons also believe--and tremble with fear.”


So unless you are prepared to argue that the demons have the faith that the Bible speaks of, this matter is settled.
 

Josiah

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I see my mistake now. It was to assume a familiarity with Scripture on the part of the reader, or at least a willingness to look into the matter.

Interestingly enough, you cited James 2:19 previously without understanding the meaning.

”Do you believe that there is only one God? Good! The demons also believe--and tremble with fear.”


So unless you are prepared to argue that the demons have the faith that the Bible speaks of, this matter is settled.



Correct (as usual)....


"Faith" (pistos) can be used variously. It CAN mean to intellectually embrace a corpus of teachings (as in "Teach the faith") but typically it means to trust, to rely, to claim, to lean upon (this is the sole meaning in justification).


Albion is correct. Theologically, we make this distinction in keeping with Scripture, but in classical theology, we TEND to use the word "faith" to mean to trust, rely and we use the word "belief" to mean to intellectually agree and embrace a corpus of truths. And Albion is correct that they are NOT the same thing. The devil could get a 100% on any theology test, but He does not trust/rely on Jesus as his Savior and Lord: he's brain has the info but his heart and soul hate Jesus, not trust/rely on Jesus. There are Muslims and Jews with Ph.D.'s in Christianity and Christian teachings, but does that mean they lie when they call themselves Muslim or Jewish because intellectually understanding a corpus of information IS being justified/saved?




.
 

YourTruthGod

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Mostly I get along well with anybody willing to deal truthfully with me. I do not really care much what you think needs to be corrected in Catholic doings as long as you are willing to check the facts and debate the issue rather than rely on rumours and other unreliable sources for your "proofs against Catholicism". Here in CH poorly remembered lessons in school without supportive documentation form the bulk of the material used to critique Catholic teaching and practise and when it is not taken from such questionable sources as those already mentioned then some remarks about what some unnamed Catholic allegedly said or did or some reference to a car park celebration becomes the source for accusations that would be funny but for the harm that they do. But in your case most of what you've written is not especially egregious even though I have noticed some errors in your statements about Catholicism. You are newish here and I am a forgiving soul ;) So we'll get along just fine I hope.

I know the Catholic church well. I was a Catholic and my ancestors were Catholics. Everything I say against the Catholic religion is proven with scriptures. I am not trying to tell anyone they are not saved or are going to hell. I am just trying to show that we can know God's truth, and it is better than man's truth.
 

YourTruthGod

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God.

Ephesians 2:8-9,

God allows us to get faith when we are taught, persuaded, and convinced about Jesus Christ.


1 Corinthians 12:3

That scripture is where Paul is assuring the people who did not understand what the tongue speakers were saying that they weren't speaking bad about Jesus.


We CAN get it any way God desires.... John the Baptist got it before He was even born. But typically, it comes via Word and Sacrament.

John 17:20, Romans 10:17, Titus 3:5
The scriptures tell us plainly that WE have to have faith. It is accredited to us.

Scripture says faith is a GIFT and comes from the Holy Spirit.
You can't just make things up.
Give the scripture that says that exact thing you said.

There is no Scripture that says dead, unregenerate atheists give faith to self.... or that faith is unrelated to regeneration.

God does not save the unbelieving unrepentant.

You have to believe and repent or perish.

Blessings on your Holy Week commemoration.

- Josiah

Every day is a holy day in Christ.

Blessings to you.
 

YourTruthGod

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I see my mistake now. It was to assume a familiarity with Scripture on the part of the reader, or at least a willingness to look into the matter.

Interestingly enough, you cited James 2:19 previously without understanding the meaning.

”Do you believe that there is only one God? Good! The demons also believe--and tremble with fear.”


So unless you are prepared to argue that the demons have the faith that the Bible speaks of, this matter is settled.

James is explaining that even the demons have faith AND DO SOMETHING, they shudder.

Now it is proof that anyone can have faith if even the demons believe.
 
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