AA and Christianity

[Hammster]

Alcohol abuse is a sin issue. It is not a disease.

 

[Ruth]

Because if it's not Christ, then they are hellhound.

Well, believe what you want to. I don't believe that.

 

[Hammster]

Well, believe what you want to. I don't believe that.

I know.

 

[ValleyGal]

Hammster, is there something wrong with being pragmatic?

As to the question, everyone has a higher power, imo, and often it is their idols (it's amazing how idolizing money can change people's behaviour, for example). If someone in AA finds a higher power that can help them stay clean, then that is a good thing - all the better if it's Jesus. Whether alcohol misuse is a sin thing or not, AA helps people.

As believers, we must recognize and accept that not everyone will choose Jesus as their higher power. For those who do not choose him, whether they are hellbound or not, AA can at least help them to live a better life than they would have otherwise (and likely met an early "hell").

There are Christian 12-step programs, too, for those whose higher power is Jesus. The founders of AA were Christians, and for every person they helped, they wear as a shining crown in heaven, especially for those who came to know Jesus there. Imo, there is nothing wrong with being pragmatic.

 

[psalms 91]

What ifs do change the facts. If the higher power is Satan, and that person stays sober for 30 years, what benefit is that to them?

I have never met anyone in AA who believed that, did you as you seem to be stuck on that.

 

[Hammster]

I have never met anyone in AA who believed that, did you as you seem to be stuck on that.

Anyone who has a "higher power" other than Christ believes it. That's why Satan is called the Angel of Light, and the father of lies.

 

[Ruth]

If Alcoholism is a sin is heart disease and cancer a sin, too?

 

[Hammster]

If Alcoholism is a sin is heart disease and cancer a sin, too?

No.

 

[Ruth]

Alcohol abuse is a sin issue. It is not a disease.

is mental illness a sin?

 

[Hammster]

is mental illness a sin?

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[Ruth]

Not that I'm aware of.

I'm so glad for that because I have seen people blame depression on sin at another forum.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

What ifs do change the facts. If the higher power is Satan, and that person stays sober for 30 years, what benefit is that to them?

Your conclusion doesn't work. If you are "intimately familiar" with the book, as you say, then anyone with any sense will not allow one's "higher power" to be satan. Darkness cannot bring about good things. The founders knew this, and anyone with even a passing knowledge of how the steps work would know this. If anyone persisted in this delusion, they would not last. And, as far as the "disease/sin" dichotomy, can you explain how "sin" can alter brain and body chemistry so that one sinner's body can process alcohol normally, and another's can't?

 

[Alithis]

I think that others can have higher powers not the same as mine and it works for them so why should I say it's wrong?

Thou shalt have no other gods(higher powers aka demons) before me.

 

[Alithis]

Teachs people to make amends, to seek forgiveness and to grant it, to seek a higher power, a lot of christian values there and it leads many to Christ as well.

i think bill .. if you consider that aa is not what it once was ..( it leads to people saying things like some one here has posted in great error regarding higher powers .)
while due to the presence of believers in the lord JEsus at some meetings ,some are led to christ ., in other meetings where they are not present the devil is only too happy that people be led to reconcile and forgive .. as long as they don't find christ jesus he is over joyed .
so no matter what "good" is seemingly accomplished , without christ jesus it is accomplished in vain, for they will perish in their accomplishments if they don't find and follow the lord JEsus .

for me the very philosophy behind the statement .. hi my name is "..." i am an alcoholicc . is something i desire absolutely no christian to ever say .

but rather .. HI my name is "Michael" .. i was a porn addict .. but now i have been saved and forgive and cleaned and born again of the Spirit of god and i am a son of the most high God .

.. i am a new creation in christ JEsus ..thus i do not do nor serve the things that old identity once did and served .. if i return and serve those things then they will be my master . but i have a fully new identity in the lord Jesus and am a new creation . if i go back to my old self i will perish in my old self - but i digress . my point was .. the philosophy behind AA Binds a person to the identity of sin .. by saying i am an alcoholic iv been dry for x days .. means im an alcoholic and am never free from it .

but our lord came to set us free from the power of sin.. if its power is broken then we are free to go and need not fear it any more .
its philosophy has a form of godliness but denies the power there of .

this is the aspect i strongly disagree with -how can i confess christ my deliverer and confess his power to deliver me ,by identifying myself as "-inset particular sin here- " at the same time.

let every man testify in the lord .."hi my name is "...." and the lord JESUS saved me and set me free ..Hallalujah !

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Lie (what we believe about A.A. teaching): "I am _____ and I am an alcoholic"
A.A. teaching: "We are men and women who have recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body" -Bill W., Co-Founder.

Even A.A. members can believe a lie. When I was a member, I refused to state the lie, but taught what Bill W. taught.

 

[Hammster]

Your conclusion doesn't work. If you are "intimately familiar" with the book, as you say, then anyone with any sense will not allow one's "higher power" to be satan. Darkness cannot bring about good things. The founders knew this, and anyone with even a passing knowledge of how the steps work would know this. If anyone persisted in this delusion, they would not last. And, as far as the "disease/sin" dichotomy, can you explain how "sin" can alter brain and body chemistry so that one sinner's body can process alcohol normally, and another's can't?

Darkness will surely bring about "good" if that "good" will keep someone from Christ.

 

[Hammster]

Lie (what we believe about A.A. teaching): "I am _____ and I am an alcoholic"
A.A. teaching: "We are men and women who have recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body" -Bill W., Co-Founder.

Even A.A. members can believe a lie. When I was a member, I refused to state the lie, but taught what Bill W. taught.

If one is no longer an alcoholic, then there's no reason to keep going.

 

[ValleyGal]

If one is no longer an alcoholic, then there's no reason to keep going.

Some people keep going as a matter of relapse prevention. Some go back because they become sponsors for others and/or to support others. AA is a community of people who can relate, and struggle together to help each other recover from an often debilitating illness (addiction). For those who do not understand addictions, it is easy to make assumptions and conclusions about what it must be like and what it "should" be like instead. But people who do understand go because they find it helpful.

 

[Hammster]

Some people keep going as a matter of relapse prevention. Some go back because they become sponsors for others and/or to support others. AA is a community of people who can relate, and struggle together to help each other recover from an often debilitating illness (addiction). For those who do not understand addictions, it is easy to make assumptions and conclusions about what it must be like and what it "should" be like instead. But people who do understand go because they find it helpful.

Why would someone who is no longer an alcoholic need support?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why would someone who is no longer an alcoholic need support?

Alcoholic addiction is very difficult for some people to overcome, constant encouragement and help is often needed. The same is true of some drug addictions too.