A "Seven" and a "Woman"

[JustTheFacts]

I was compelled this morning to post the following summary of evidence from the word of God proving that God warned us in advance about false teachers that will take over the Church of Jesus Christ at the start of the Church. This is my analytical summary for review and comments by those who spend a lot of time studying and trying to understand the word of God. It could use some polishing, but I'm not presenting it as a final product--I'd like to get some thoughtful insight from any Bible experts in this forum. Although the results can be a bit hard to handle, know that the conclusions prove God has been with us from the beginning and Jesus is proven as the Messiah and God and through belief in his sacrifice we will be with God for eternity.

-----------------------------
According to John, the early church was turned over to false teachers—I've been through this many times (1 John 2:18-19). Revelation chapters twelve and thirteen and Daniel chapters nine and twelve tell us the exact details of Jesus seven-year mission to officially usher in the New Covenant of Jesus (Daniel 9:27) AND explain when and how the Church of Jesus Christ (CJC) is taken over by false teachers.

The first half of Jesus' mission lasted 1260 days with God protecting Jesus and the disciples as Jesus taught, healed, and performed miracles (John 7:28-38 and Revelation 12:6). After this came Jesus’ sacrifice (Daniel 9:27 and Revelation 12:7-10). The sacrifice of Jesus lasted exactly 6.75 days. In summary, Jesus’ sacrifice included:

• The start at the anointing as the Passover lamb by Mary Magdalene six days before Passover (John 12:1-3)
• Jesus’ sacrifice completed with his death on the Preparation Day—the day before the Passover (John 19:31).
• Jesus placed in the tomb the same day he was executed so that he wouldn’t remain on the cross during the Sabbath the Saturday that was the next day, and in this case was also the Passover (John 19:31).
• Jesus was then resurrected the first day of the week—the day after Passover (John 20:1) which was also Sunday.

Therefore, Jesus spent three days in the tomb as he had promised. The days of Jesus’ sacrifice are:

• Sunday—Jesus anointed as the sacrifice 6 days before Passover Day
• Monday—Jesus preparing for his sacrifice
• Tuesday—Jesus preparing for his sacrifice
• Wednesday—Jesus preparing for his sacrifice
• Thursday—Arrest and Trial
• Friday—Jesus executed as the sacrifice and placed in the tomb
• Saturday—Sabbath and Passover Day; Jesus is in the tomb
• Sunday—Resurrection Day early in the morning and appearances later that day

Jesus came back from the dead as promised to give the Holy Spirit to the disciples (John 7:39, 14:26) the first day of his resurrection (20:22). That day started the time ticking for the last half of Jesus seven-year mission—the time to start the Church of Jesus Christ (CJC). The CJC will be started through the testimony of the disciples Jesus chose (Mark 13:3, 10 and Revelation 12:11). Those disciples presenting their testimony were prophesied to be killed for their faith in Jesus Christ (Revelation 12:11, John 21:18-24). The time of the New Covenant of Jesus will be a short set time full of conflict over belief in Jesus (Daniel 9:26 and Revelation 12:12-13). Had it not been for God protecting the disciples during a set time to provide their testimony, it never would have been written and the CJC would not have started (Revelation 12:14). The set time of the last half of Jesus mission to start the CJC is referred to as “a time, times, and half a time,” and the exact number of days is told to us through Daniel—1290 days (Daniel 12:12).

Daniel proceeds to tell us that there is only a small group of people that will be blessed to witness Jesus with them through his sacrifice, resurrection, and Holy Spirit to start the CJC—a total period of 45 days (Daniel 12:13). The total days of commissioning of the CJC of the disciples with Jesus and his Holy Spirit is defined as Acts 1:3—40 days, plus 5 days for Jesus sacrifice—note that the 1.75 day time period that Jesus was in the tomb doesn’t count because the disciples were not with Jesus during that time. 45 days plus 1290 days to start the CJC add up to the 1335 days that the disciples were blessed to be with Jesus and start the CJC.

Note that the 1260 days for Jesus to teach, heal and perform miracles, plus the days of Jesus sacrifice 6.75 plus the 1290 days the disciples needed to start the CJC with Jesus as the Holy Spirit, add up to 2556.75—the exact number of days in a seven-year period of the mission of the Messiah (Daniel 9:27).

 

[JustTheFacts]

From Daniel and Revelation we obtain details about what happens next-the CJC is attacked and false teachers take control of it.

After the sixty-two weeks the Anointed One will be cut off, and will have nothing. The people of the prince who come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end will be with a flood, and war will be even to the end. Desolations are determined. (Daniel 9:26)

Sometime after the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be executed having no possessions. This was fulfilled by Jesus when he was crucified, and his clothes were taken by the soldiers who performed the execution. Jesus will start his Church and the false teachers working with Satan will take control of the Church and take it as their own. There will be a battle for the Kingdom of God from the start of the Church until the end.

This analysis leads to the timing of the takeover of the CJC. Daniel predicted that the whole time of Jesus will not be a time of peace and Revelation confirms it. After the disciples were protected by God (Revelation 13:14), the flood gates of evil and corruption opened. The devil attacked the disciples and the CJC (Revelation 13:15) and the people of the world—the governing authorities helped (Revelation 13:16). The world did not want Jesus so they attacked his followers (Revelation 13:17). No time delay is mentioned to the coming of the beast. The beast, referred to as the Synagogue of Satan was already present in the start-up CJC (Revelation 2:9 and 3:9) and it grew and expanded. Revelation even tells you how the beast will take over the CJC—through a martyred disciple of Jesus (Revelation 13:3, 12). This disciple can only be Peter—the disciple that Jesus told would be executed for his faith (John 21:19).

But the false teachers who took control of the CJC didn’t want you recognizing the beast—so they hid him with theology. Revelation, if dated early in John’s life, it points to the understanding I’ve presented. However, with a few bits of tradition and theology, the false teachers could prevent this connection from being detected. If John is imprisoned in a Patmos prison and wrote Revelation toward the end of the first century, then none of Revelation can apply to the lives of the disciples. In addition, even the meaning of the Olivet Discourse that had Jesus stating the generation of disciples will experience everything prophesied (Mark 13:30) is twisted to hide the beast0. Note that next verse that even though false teachers will take over the CJC, the word of God through Jesus will survive (Mark 13:31). That verse does not say the false teachers won’t try to corrupt the word of God, but it does say that we, as followers of Jesus, can depend on the true words of Jesus being exact.

But nothing in that Patmos story about John can be proven to be true—it is all based on tradition and theology. The beast remains hidden, and God has wanted to reveal it to you for years. The entire book of Revelation explains a story of corruption—not an end of time seven-year period of ART. Through the meaning of the “seven” as referencing something complete, and a “woman” referencing God as he starts the New Covenant, the truth can be found.

Jesus even prophesied the use of the term “woman” to represent the Church that the disciples would start in the future. Jesus prophesied the start-up of the Kingdom of God through the Church of Jesus Christ (John 16:1-16). In that section of Gospel, Jesus told the disciples how he was leaving them but after he left, he would send the disciples the Holy Spirit to help them start the Church. The disciples didn’t understand what Jesus was prophesying so they asked Jesus for clarification (John 16:17-19). In response Jesus provided the following ‘key’ words to understand the New Covenant starting with the 7-years of Jesus:

A woman, when she gives birth, has sorrow because her time has come. But when she has delivered the child, she doesn’t remember the anguish any more, for the joy that a human being is born into the world. Therefore you now have sorrow, but I will see you again, and your heart will rejoice, and no one will take your joy away from you. (John 16:21-22)

The start-up of the Church that Jesus assigned to the disciples, will be like a woman giving birth. Jesus compared the start of the Church of the New Covenant to a woman giving birth and this ties directly to Revelation. The woman that started out pure, turned into the mother of all prostitutes. The beast affected every denomination of CJC through theology and tradition. These aren't my words they are written in the word of God. You can believe theology or you can search for the meaning of the word of God yourself.

 

[Lamb]

Do you belong to the church of latter day saints?

 

[BruceLeiter]

I was compelled this morning to post the following summary of evidence from the word of God proving that God warned us in advance about false teachers that will take over the Church of Jesus Christ at the start of the Church. This is my analytical summary for review and comments by those who spend a lot of time studying and trying to understand the word of God. It could use some polishing, but I'm not presenting it as a final product--I'd like to get some thoughtful insight from any Bible experts in this forum. Although the results can be a bit hard to handle, know that the conclusions prove God has been with us from the beginning and Jesus is proven as the Messiah and God and through belief in his sacrifice we will be with God for eternity.

-----------------------------
According to John, the early church was turned over to false teachers—I've been through this many times (1 John 2:18-19). Revelation chapters twelve and thirteen and Daniel chapters nine and twelve tell us the exact details of Jesus seven-year mission to officially usher in the New Covenant of Jesus (Daniel 9:27) AND explain when and how the Church of Jesus Christ (CJC) is taken over by false teachers.

The first half of Jesus' mission lasted 1260 days with God protecting Jesus and the disciples as Jesus taught, healed, and performed miracles (John 7:28-38 and Revelation 12:6). After this came Jesus’ sacrifice (Daniel 9:27 and Revelation 12:7-10). The sacrifice of Jesus lasted exactly 6.75 days. In summary, Jesus’ sacrifice included:

• The start at the anointing as the Passover lamb by Mary Magdalene six days before Passover (John 12:1-3)
• Jesus’ sacrifice completed with his death on the Preparation Day—the day before the Passover (John 19:31).
• Jesus placed in the tomb the same day he was executed so that he wouldn’t remain on the cross during the Sabbath the Saturday that was the next day, and in this case was also the Passover (John 19:31).
• Jesus was then resurrected the first day of the week—the day after Passover (John 20:1) which was also Sunday.

Therefore, Jesus spent three days in the tomb as he had promised. The days of Jesus’ sacrifice are:

• Sunday—Jesus anointed as the sacrifice 6 days before Passover Day
• Monday—Jesus preparing for his sacrifice
• Tuesday—Jesus preparing for his sacrifice
• Wednesday—Jesus preparing for his sacrifice
• Thursday—Arrest and Trial
• Friday—Jesus executed as the sacrifice and placed in the tomb
• Saturday—Sabbath and Passover Day; Jesus is in the tomb
• Sunday—Resurrection Day early in the morning and appearances later that day

Jesus came back from the dead as promised to give the Holy Spirit to the disciples (John 7:39, 14:26) the first day of his resurrection (20:22). That day started the time ticking for the last half of Jesus seven-year mission—the time to start the Church of Jesus Christ (CJC). The CJC will be started through the testimony of the disciples Jesus chose (Mark 13:3, 10 and Revelation 12:11). Those disciples presenting their testimony were prophesied to be killed for their faith in Jesus Christ (Revelation 12:11, John 21:18-24). The time of the New Covenant of Jesus will be a short set time full of conflict over belief in Jesus (Daniel 9:26 and Revelation 12:12-13). Had it not been for God protecting the disciples during a set time to provide their testimony, it never would have been written and the CJC would not have started (Revelation 12:14). The set time of the last half of Jesus mission to start the CJC is referred to as “a time, times, and half a time,” and the exact number of days is told to us through Daniel—1290 days (Daniel 12:12).

Daniel proceeds to tell us that there is only a small group of people that will be blessed to witness Jesus with them through his sacrifice, resurrection, and Holy Spirit to start the CJC—a total period of 45 days (Daniel 12:13). The total days of commissioning of the CJC of the disciples with Jesus and his Holy Spirit is defined as Acts 1:3—40 days, plus 5 days for Jesus sacrifice—note that the 1.75 day time period that Jesus was in the tomb doesn’t count because the disciples were not with Jesus during that time. 45 days plus 1290 days to start the CJC add up to the 1335 days that the disciples were blessed to be with Jesus and start the CJC.

Note that the 1260 days for Jesus to teach, heal and perform miracles, plus the days of Jesus sacrifice 6.75 plus the 1290 days the disciples needed to start the CJC with Jesus as the Holy Spirit, add up to 2556.75—the exact number of days in a seven-year period of the mission of the Messiah (Daniel 9:27).

Yes, except if those numbers of days are symbolic, as the many numbers in Revelation are.

I'm afraid that you have through your analysis arrived at a conclusion and gathered together many texts that you believe support it. That's called theology. However, how many of those references have the same meaning when you take into consideration the full contexts (surrounding verses, chapter, book, and the whole Bible) of them?

 

[JustTheFacts]

Yes, except if those numbers of days are symbolic, as the many numbers in Revelation are.

So God said those numbers are symbolic or is that your opinion?

I'm afraid that you have through your analysis arrived at a conclusion and gathered together many texts that you believe support it.

I don't recall gathering any texts together or mentioning any texts besides the Bible.

That's called theology. However, how many of those references have the same meaning when you take into consideration the full contexts (surrounding verses, chapter, book, and the whole Bible) of them?

All of my references have been put into context with the words of Jesus and the surrounding texts. It's not easy, but I tried to be careful and thorough. Which one are you disagreeing or having a problem with and why?

 

[JustTheFacts]

Do you belong to the church of latter day saints?

lol. Why do you ask?

 

[Lamb]

lol. Why do you ask?

Because in your OP you mentioned "the Church of Jesus Christ" and that is usually followed by the Latter Day Saints. So, are you?

 

[JustTheFacts]

Ahhh….I understand. It’s too bad they hijacked that reference. Not a chance of me being associated with them and I don’t see how anyone could believe what is written in the Book of Mormon. I didn’t waste too much time analyzing it, just enough to give it a fair assessment.

I use the “Church of Jesus Christ” (CJC) terminology to represent what Jesus started with his disciples - a Church fully dedicated to Jesus and belief in him, and nothing else. Since I see Revelation as a training manual for the disciples starting the Church with it taking us through the entire future of the CJC, first Jesus described what the Church is like at its startup and how Jesus is not happy with it (Revelation 2:1-3:22). Then Jesus provided John a description of what the Church of Jesus Christ is to be (Revelation 4:1-11). The twenty four elders represent the Law and the testimony of Jesus. The four creatures represent the Holy Spirit who sees and hears everything going on in the Church, and is there to assist in worshipping Jesus. The CJC is only and all about Jesus (Revelation 5:1-6:2). The CJC is not about rituals, formality, sound systems, or business, it is all about heartfelt and complete worship of Jesus! Any church that falls short of this is being run and operated by a false teacher and that’s what Jesus predicted happening (Revelation 6:3-7:16). Then there will be a change because God has violent rejected the prayers of the false teachers who took over the CJC and created their own church (Revelation 8:1-5). Revelation tells us that God will reject the prayers of the great false church of the tribulation.

 

[BruceLeiter]

So God said those numbers are symbolic or is that your opinion?

I don't recall gathering any texts together or mentioning any texts besides the Bible.

All of my references have been put into context with the words of Jesus and the surrounding texts. It's not easy, but I tried to be careful and thorough. Which one are you disagreeing or having a problem with and why?

All I'm saying is that there might possibly be another legitimate interpretation because of that kind of literature based on figurative visions. We must take into account the kind of writing involved in order to interpret it correctly.

So God said those numbers are symbolic or is that your opinion?

I don't recall gathering any texts together or mentioning any texts besides the Bible.

All of my references have been put into context with the words of Jesus and the surrounding texts. It's not easy, but I tried to be careful and thorough. Which one are you disagreeing or having a problem with and why?

However, your comments in between the verses show your assumptions, for example, that the false teachers took over the church and fully corrupted it. There have always been false teachers; the early church rejected them and came up with Holy-Spirit-guided decision on the canon and on the early creeds as true to Scripture.

 

[JustTheFacts]

All I'm saying is that there might possibly be another legitimate interpretation because of that kind of literature based on figurative visions. We must take into account the kind of writing involved in order to interpret it correctly.

I don't have a problem with other interpretations. They all should stand on their merit and if they support the word of God and Jesus they should be considered. I just haven't read any interpretations that made sense--that is why I did my own investigation.

However, your comments in between the verses show your assumptions, for example, that the false teachers took over the church and fully corrupted it.

That's not an assumption--it's from prophecy. The stature of Daniel supports it. The goat and the ram of Daniel support it. Revelation throughout supports it. In fact, I can't find anything in the Bible that disputes it. But I am all eyes and ears.

There have always been false teachers; the early church rejected them and came up with Holy-Spirit-guided decision on the canon and on the early creeds as true to Scripture.

Where is the proof that the early church rejected the false teachers? The disciples were killed and we don't know what happened to any of them besides James. Essentially all documentation is missing from the time of the disciples except for the words of Paul and a few other scraps. Do you agree that the Catholic Church has added a bunch of stuff to the word of God? Do you agree that the Catholic Church were the religious leaders of the world for many years?

 

[BruceLeiter]

I don't have a problem with other interpretations. They all should stand on their merit and if they support the word of God and Jesus they should be considered. I just haven't read any interpretations that made sense--that is why I did my own investigation.

That's not an assumption--it's from prophecy. The stature of Daniel supports it. The goat and the ram of Daniel support it. Revelation throughout supports it. In fact, I can't find anything in the Bible that disputes it. But I am all eyes and ears.

Where is the proof that the early church rejected the false teachers? The disciples were killed and we don't know what happened to any of them besides James. Essentially all documentation is missing from the time of the disciples except for the words of Paul and a few other scraps. Do you agree that the Catholic Church has added a bunch of stuff to the word of God? Do you agree that the Catholic Church were the religious leaders of the world for many years?

Yes, I agree that the Catholic Church has erroneously added a separate tradition to the Bible and certainly shouldn't have.

However, we're talking about the time between about A.D. 100 and 350 as the early church before the Catholic Church became the Roman church. Since that period is largely silent about the growing church, we can't make any firm pronouncements about false and true teachers at all. And your interpretations about the biblical prophecies might not have anything to do with that historical period at all.

History's silence isn't any basis for any conclusions except that periodic persecution happened, while the church grew abundantly. I don't think that false teachers would have had any chance in such an environment, when careful copyists were busy at work copying the manuscripts.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Yes, I agree that the Catholic Church has erroneously added a separate tradition to the Bible and certainly shouldn't have.

However, we're talking about the time between about A.D. 100 and 350 as the early church before the Catholic Church became the Roman church. Since that period is largely silent about the growing church, we can't make any firm pronouncements about false and true teachers at all. And your interpretations about the biblical prophecies might not have anything to do with that historical period at all.

History's silence isn't any basis for any conclusions except that periodic persecution happened, while the church grew abundantly. I don't think that false teachers would have had any chance in such an environment, when careful copyists were busy at work copying the manuscripts.

But God told us through prophecy when the false teachers took over the CJC.

The Ram and the Goat of Daniel --The Ram was the Law the little horn, and Jesus was the second horn that grew later but became great. The Goat is the false teachers out to rule over the CJC started by Jesus and his disciples:

6 He came to the ram that had the two horns, which I saw standing before the river, and ran on him in the fury of his power. 7 I saw him come close to the ram, and he was moved with anger against him, and struck the ram, and broke his two horns. There was no power in the ram to stand before him; but he cast him down to the ground, and trampled on him. There was no one who could deliver the ram out of his hand. 8 The male goat magnified himself exceedingly. When he was strong, the great horn was broken; and instead of it there came up four notable horns toward the four winds of the sky. (Daniel 8:6-8)

The woman as Jesus described in John 16:19-22 is the disciples starting the CJC. Revelation tells you that the church will be born then
overtaken by false teachers (Revelation 12:1-16). God protected Jesus during his mission to teach, heal and perform miracles. Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit into his disciples the first night of his resurrection. Did God wait? Nope, it happened right away so that the disciples could start the CJC prior to being persecuted. The disciples with the Holy Spirit were then protected for 1290 days to start the CJC, then immediately afterward the protection ended and the persecution started in full force. Acts wrote that Stephen was killed and then some years later, James Zebedee was executed. The protection was lifted and the disciples were on the run immediately after the seven year mission period of Jesus ended.

Why would anyone consider that the ones that took over the CJC were great men with halos? Again, 1 John 2:18-19 tells us all we need to know. The CJC was attacked and became corrupted immediately. Even the statue of Daniel explains the corruption. What is the bronze kingdom--fake gold--pretend Gold. Those who took over the CJC pretended to be Jesus.