A Rant: Protestants and Catholics

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
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The mere ASSOCIATION with Catholicism in my opinion doesn't make it wrong or bad. The underlining argument I see even yet that "it's Catholic" (so it's bad) is absurd and inconsistent. If it's WRONG, then show so..... simply because it's CATHOLIC is, IMO, irrelevant



I'm an EX-Catholic, having (regretfully) left that denomination - solely and only and exclusively because of a FEW of its new, unique Dogmas and because of it's ecclesiology and epistemology. I eventually became Lutheran (LCMS). About half of those in my Lutheran parish are ex-Catholics, most leaving Catholicism for the same basic reason I did: Teachings.

But in MY OPINION, especially here in the USA, there is an odd situation. In the USA, Catholicism for much of our history has been viewed negatively by many Americans - this understood as a PROTESTANT country (even though Catholics LEGALLY have full religious freedom). I think this attitude is past now (for longer than I've been alive; perhaps last an issue in 1960 when a Catholic ran for president) but remants of this remain.

There is this view that if something is associated with Catholicism, it ERGO is bad, wrong, to be rejected. The mere APPEARANCE of something "Catholic" equals wrong, bad. Thus, in the USA, things like Crucifixes, weekly Communion, making the Sign of the Cross, etc. fell from use among Protestants because it "looks too Catholic." Sadly, even Lutheranism in the USA got caught up in this to some extent.

What is silly about this is that Protestants believe probably 90% of what the Catholic Church teaches, and we do a LOT of the same things Catholicism does. We worship on Sunday, we sing hymns, we have Bible readings in church - all things CATHOLICS did before Protestants, all things CATHOLICS do but Protestants do, TOO. Catholics celebrate the Nativity - and we celebrate it on the same day, for the past 200 years just as much as they do (although some Protestants made Christmas literally illegal, it being "Catholic"), Catholics celebrate Easter on a certain date (unique usually from Orthodox) - and we celebrate it on the same day. Etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.

IF something is "wrong" or "bad" because Catholics teach or do it, then we should stop worshiping on Sundays, stop singing songs in church, stop saying the Lord's Prayer (well, a lot of Protestants do avoid that), stop reading Scritpure in church, stop having sermons. And we need to stop teaching the Trinity and nearly all other things we teach because the Catholics teach those things (often, LONG before we did).


The mere ASSOCIATION with Catholicism in my opinion doesn't make it wrong or bad. The underlining argument I see even yet that "it's Catholic" is absurd and inconsistent. If it's WRONG, then show so..... simply because it's CATHOLIC is, IMO, irrelevant.




Sorry.....



My half cent.....



Pax




- Josiah
 
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Lamb

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Well said, Josiah!

There's way too much Catholic bashing. Catholics are our brothers and sisters in Christ and we need to treat them with the same love we treat all our neighbors as Jesus invites us to do.
 

Josiah

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To Catholics -

This works in reverse, too. Just because something is associated with Protestantism doesn't ERGO make it wrong. After all, my Catholic parish had Sunday School, VBS and youth groups - things "borrowed" from Protestantism. I know of Catholic parishes that have praise bands and "small groups" all also borrowed from Protestantism.

And just because it's CATHOLIC doesn't ERGO make it right. If it's right or good, show that. Simply stating, "but my singular, individual denomination now does or teaches that" doesn't make it right or good. ANYMORE than it makes it ergo wrong or bad.



My half cent.



- Josiah
 

charis en excelcis

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Much of the difficulty, in my observation, is the way that we address one another. We can disagree very sharply, yet choose to address those issues directly but kindly. "Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another as Christ has forgiven you."
 

Hebrews 11

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I do not think the divide is simply a misunderstanding.
Catholic and Evangelical doctrine are opposed on many levels.
 

MoreCoffee

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I'm an EX-Catholic, having (regretfully) left that denomination - solely and only and exclusively because of a FEW of its new, unique Dogmas and because of it's ecclesiology and epistemology.
...

Just those things eh?

I can't help chuckling at the use of "solely" with a list following that includes epistemology, ecclesiology, and dogmas :)
 

MoreCoffee

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Just those things eh?

I can't help chuckling at the use of "solely" with a list following that includes epistemology, ecclesiology, and dogmas :)

PS; hasn't the USA had exactly one and only one Catholic president? JFK?
 

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The mere ASSOCIATION with Catholicism in my opinion doesn't make it wrong or bad. The underlining argument I see even yet that "it's Catholic" (so it's bad) is absurd and inconsistent. If it's WRONG, then show so..... simply because it's CATHOLIC is, IMO, irrelevant



I'm an EX-Catholic, having (regretfully) left that denomination - solely and only and exclusively because of a FEW of its new, unique Dogmas and because of it's ecclesiology and epistemology. I eventually became Lutheran (LCMS). About half of those in my Lutheran parish are ex-Catholics, most leaving Catholicism for the same basic reason I did: Teachings.

But in MY OPINION, especially here in the USA, there is an odd situation. In the USA, Catholicism for much of our history has been viewed negatively by many Americans - this understood as a PROTESTANT country (even though Catholics LEGALLY have full religious freedom). I think this attitude is past now (for longer than I've been alive; perhaps last an issue in 1960 when a Catholic ran for president) but remants of this remain.

There is this view that if something is associated with Catholicism, it ERGO is bad, wrong, to be rejected. The mere APPEARANCE of something "Catholic" equals wrong, bad. Thus, in the USA, things like Crucifixes, weekly Communion, making the Sign of the Cross, etc. fell from use among Protestants because it "looks too Catholic." Sadly, even Lutheranism in the USA got caught up in this to some extent.

What is silly about this is that Protestants believe probably 90% of what the Catholic Church teaches, and we do a LOT of the same things Catholicism does. We worship on Sunday, we sing hymns, we have Bible readings in church - all things CATHOLICS did before Protestants, all things CATHOLICS do but Protestants do, TOO. Catholics celebrate the Nativity - and we celebrate it on the same day, for the past 200 years just as much as they do (although some Protestants made Christmas literally illegal, it being "Catholic"), Catholics celebrate Easter on a certain date (unique usually from Orthodox) - and we celebrate it on the same day. Etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.

IF something is "wrong" or "bad" because Catholics teach or do it, then we should stop worshiping on Sundays, stop singing songs in church, stop saying the Lord's Prayer (well, a lot of Protestants do avoid that), stop reading Scritpure in church, stop having sermons. And we need to stop teaching the Trinity and nearly all other things we teach because the Catholics teach those things (often, LONG before we did).


The mere ASSOCIATION with Catholicism in my opinion doesn't make it wrong or bad. The underlining argument I see even yet that "it's Catholic" is absurd and inconsistent. If it's WRONG, then show so..... simply because it's CATHOLIC is, IMO, irrelevant.




Sorry.....



My half cent.....



Pax




- Josiah

Oh its not a mere association ... and you said all that on the assumption that all they tech is correct and biblical. and it is not , Much of it is not even IN the bible .

i believe 100 percent of what the bible teaches and only believe what catholics teach if it agree with the bible ..
so am i bashing catholics ? of standing up for what the bible plainly states is to be falsely accused as catholic bashing then it is a burden i bear i guess .

as we have shown in the other threads .. the only thing about mary the bible says is she is blessed to be chosen
she was a virgin when the lord was formed in her womb and she gave birth , and she went on to have children. everything else rome teaches is not in or of the bible . so please tell me . why should i agree with them or accept it ? there is no reason.
 

Ruth

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I was raised Catholic and am now non denominational but will be buried Catholic as my family does that. None of us go to church any more or do any of the things any religion does. I'm not sure if it is because of our strict Catholic upbringing or just refusing to do those things any more.
 

Hammster

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I cannot agree with the heretical Catholic Mass. I don't care if they also sing songs and read from scripture on Sundays. I'm sure Mormons do the same thing.
 

MoreCoffee

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I cannot agree with the heretical Catholic Mass. I don't care if they also sing songs and read from scripture on Sundays. I'm sure Mormons do the same thing.

I have a similar view of baptist services ... :p
 

MoreCoffee

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I have a similar view of baptist services ... :p

Of course you do.

I don't really, that's why there was a :p

I do not attend Baptist meetings. The last time I was in a Baptist church was for a prayer meeting associated with "Alpha" which is an Anglican inspired evangelism approach. The discussion about Alpha was okay but the prayer afterwards was terrible. We were guests there and the agenda said a time of shared prayer (30 minutes) but the Baptist lady who was hosting the meeting and prayer said an opening prayer that lasted 25 minutes all of which seemed to be about telling God what we knew he did and thought. That was a shame, our Parish dropped out of the Alpha course after that experience.
 

Hammster

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I don't really, that's why there was a :p

I do not attend Baptist meetings. The last time I was in a Baptist church was for a prayer meeting associated with "Alpha" which is an Anglican inspired evangelism approach. The discussion about Alpha was okay but the prayer afterwards was terrible. We were guests there and the agenda said a time of shared prayer (30 minutes) but the Baptist lady who was hosting the meeting and prayer said an opening prayer that lasted 25 minutes all of which seemed to be about telling God what we knew he did and thought. That was a shame, our Parish dropped out of the Alpha course after that experience.

Since, according to Trent, baptist churches are anathema, I can't see how you'd care for them.

And Alpha is nonsense.
 

MoreCoffee

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Since, according to Trent, baptist churches are anathema, I can't see how you'd care for them.

And Alpha is nonsense.

The documents of the council of Trent never mention "Baptist churches".
 

Hebrews 11

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The Catechism is considered Holy, this troubles me when it comes to the Euchrist having the power to forgive sin.

The same issue comes up in the Confessional.

I simply cannot deal with the idea of a Priest standing in as Christ.

Christ is and was sinless, no human could attain holiness to this degree, the Bible is clear.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

God is no respecter of persons,I'm sorry but this includes the Pope or a mighty Preacher such as Billy Graham neither one can save a sinner from Hell without the presence of The Holy Spirit drawing them.
 

MoreCoffee

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The Catechism is considered Holy, this troubles me when it comes to the Euchrist having the power to forgive sin.

The same issue comes up in the Confessional.

I simply cannot deal with the idea of a Priest standing in as Christ.

Christ is and was sinless, no human could attain holiness to this degree, the Bible is clear.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

God is no respecter of persons,I'm sorry but this includes the Pope or a mighty Preacher such as Billy Graham neither one can save a sinner from Hell without the presence of The Holy Spirit drawing them.

The Eucharist cannot forgive sins, but Christ can and in the eucharist one receives Christ and his life when it is received in a worthy manner.

I like the CCC but it is not holy :)

It's a book. I like my bible too but it is a book without any special powers.
 

Hebrews 11

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The Eucharist cannot forgive sins, but Christ can and in the eucharist one receives Christ and his life when it is received in a worthy manner.

I like the CCC but it is not holy :)

It's a book. I like my bible too but it is a book without any special powers.

Well now I understand the reason Catholics display Jesus on the Cross.
If you believe we receive him from a ritual,that is carried out weekly by a man,then his Death ,Burial, and Resurrection are not needed.

Your heart will never remain empty,if it is not filled by the living Word then it will be filled with the vanity of religious ceremony.

John 12 :

[47] And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

[48] He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

[49] For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
 
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