A Fair Trial On Judgment Day?

[Spindle4]

If God has, as some like to claim, sovereignly predetermined who will come to faith in Him by hearing His Word, is it possible for those whom by inference He hasn't chosen to hear His Word and come to faith to get a fair trial on Judgment Day?

If the benefits of pardon, righteousness, grace and glory are demanded of God by Christ as the Advocate for those He has redeemed, why isn't the shedding of His blood and His sacrificial death effective in securing salvation for all?

Is the putting off the old man of sin and putting on the new man in Christ a voluntary act of those who do this, or can the Adversary argue that a fair trial on Judgment Day is not possible if God predetermines who complies with Him and who doesn't?

 

[Fritz Kobus]

I think that he would draw all men to himself (Jn. 12:32) but many reject him. Predestination is something I just don't think us fallen humans can understand. But my first pastor said it well (paraphrased): Predestination is there to comfort us. If we are saved, it is entirely God's work: if we are lost, it is entirely our own fault.

 

[atpollard]

is it possible for those whom by inference He hasn't chosen to hear His Word and come to faith to get a fair trial on Judgment Day?

Yes.
Nobody is judged based on what God has done or not done. You are judged for what you have done.
Imagine a murderer claiming the defense that “The Police didn’t stop me from shooting those people, so I am not guilty”.

 

[atpollard]

If the benefits of pardon, righteousness, grace and glory are demanded of God by Christ as the Advocate for those He has redeemed, why isn't the shedding of His blood and His sacrificial death effective in securing salvation for all?

Romans 3:18

 

[atpollard]

Is the putting off the old man of sin and putting on the new man in Christ a voluntary act of those who do this, or can the Adversary argue that a fair trial on Judgment Day is not possible if God predetermines who complies with Him and who doesn't?

A nonsensical question.
You are asking why those not saved cannot be sanctified.

However, “You will say to me, therefore, "Why then does he still find fault? For who can resist his will? But who are you, a mere man, to talk back to God? Will what is formed say to the one who formed it, "Why did you make me like this? Or has the potter no right over the clay, to make from the same lump one piece of pottery for honor and another for dishonor?” [Romans 9:19-21 CSB]

 

[Spindle4]

A nonsensical question.
You are asking why those not saved cannot be sanctified.

However, “You will say to me, therefore, "Why then does he still find fault? For who can resist his will? But who are you, a mere man, to talk back to God? Will what is formed say to the one who formed it, "Why did you make me like this? Or has the potter no right over the clay, to make from the same lump one piece of pottery for honor and another for dishonor?” [Romans 9:19-21 CSB]

No, I'm ask if putting off the old man and putting on the new man in Christ is an act of a person's will. The instruction to do so leads me to believe it is something a person chooses to do of their own volition. The idea that there is no choice or freewill in play is nonsense.

 

[Albion]

If God has, as some like to claim, sovereignly predetermined who will come to faith in Him by hearing His Word, is it possible for those whom by inference He hasn't chosen to hear His Word and come to faith to get a fair trial on Judgment Day?

No. The book is closed upon our deaths. That is why there is such an urgency about the race of life that we see in the pages of the Bible. Otherwise, we could all just count on making amends when we get to the other side and find out that it's all real.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

No, I'm ask if putting off the old man and putting on the new man in Christ is an act of a person's will. The instruction to do so leads me to believe it is something a person chooses to do of their own volition. The idea that there is no choice or freewill in play is nonsense.

Putting off the old man and putting on the new man is something that is done after the person is converted, that is, after they receive the Holy Spirit. Once a person receives the Holy Spirit they have the free will to choose to obey God. For example, see Joshua 24:

14 Now therefore fear the Lord, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the Lord. 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
The book of life (Rev 20;12-15) was compiled prior to God creating even the very
first particle for the current cosmos. (Rev 17:8) But I don't think it was compiled
arbitrarily.

According to John 5:24 and Eph 1:13, it's necessary to hear + believe the gospel to
get one's name listed in the book. Well; there's reason to believe that God is able to
view the future. So way back before beginning to construct the cosmos, He looked
down thru the centuries and foresaw everybody that was going to hear + believe.
Having in hand all the necessary data needed for compiling the book, God went
ahead and got it done and then turned His attention elsewhere.

Now, not everyone is going to be judged on the basis of hearing + believing the
gospel. There are untold millions who never heard, nor will ever hear tell, of a
Christ let alone his crucifixion for the sins of the world.

However, the beauties and complexities of nature, on earth and out in the void,
speak loudly and clearly enough that the cosmos-- all its forms of life, matter, and
energy --is the result of intelligent design. And the human conscience intuitively
knows that there is going to be a reckoning. This is what's known as the everlasting
gospel (Rev 14:6-7} and it has been preaching itself to men all over the globe from
the very beginning. (Ps 19:1-6 & Rom 1:18-20 & Rom 2:14-16)

According to Rom 10:18, nature itself is the word of God; and accounted as a
gospel. This is pretty cool because by nature's gospel, folks all over the globe--
both primitive and civilized --can be saved. In point of fact, ignorance is truly bliss
in this situation because according to Heb 10:29-31, folks who hear + disbelieve
Jesus' gospel are in greater danger of eternal suffering than those who know
absolutely nothing about him. (Can you just imagine the chagrin of a genius like
Mark Zukerberg doomed to the depths of Hell while an illiterate aboriginal with a
bone in his nose is carried up to the comforts of Heaven?)
_

 

[Spindle4]

Putting off the old man and putting on the new man is something that is done after the person is converted, that is, after they receive the Holy Spirit. Once a person receives the Holy Spirit they have the free will to choose to obey God. For example, see Joshua 24:

14 Now therefore fear the Lord, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the Lord. 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Agreed.

If, as some claim, it was never possible for the unsaved to come to faith in Christ because they were never chosen by God, then it would be unfair for them be condemned on Judgment Day for not having faith in Christ.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

Agreed.

If, as some claim, it was never possible for the unsaved to come to faith in Christ because they were never chosen by God, then it would be unfair for them be condemned on Judgment Day for not having faith in Christ.

True, but I think they would be condemned on many other things anyway. I had a pastor once who said, "the only sin that damns is unbelief." There is truth to that, but one does not want to take it too far. Every sin is a condemnable offense.

 

[Lamb]

The question of a fair trial on Judgment Day makes the unfair accusation that we aren't all guilty of sin and don't deserve eternal punishment.

The question of a fair trial on Judgment Day also accuses God of somehow not being fair because they don't understand the state of sin, nor do they know in what ways God works to convert man. We know that it's because of God that we are turned into believers. We also know it's because of man that some men reject Him. Don't blame God.

 

[Josiah]

Agreed.

If, as some claim, it was never possible for the unsaved to come to faith in Christ because they were never chosen by God, then it would be unfair for them be condemned on Judgment Day for not having faith in Christ.

Well....

EVERYONE deserves to fry in hell....

Some, however, trust/rely in Christ in whom there is forgiveness.

So, God IS just to not punish the forgiven and to punish the unforgiven.


Now, I admit, trying to mesh this with the Doctrine of Election is not simple (or maybe possible)... it ain't called the MYSTERY of Justification for nothin. But in terms of Judgement Day, it's easy: Those who shout "Look at me" will see God do that, and those who say "Look to my Savior" will see God do that; God will not condemn those who have been forgiven. I think we can say that and probably shouldn't say much more.




.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

We don't want God to be fair, because then we all would be sent to Hell fire. We want God's mercy in Christ Jesus, because then he delivers us from Hell fire by washing us in the blood of Jesus to cleanse us of our sins and make us fit (upon the resurrection to a glorified body) to dwell with him in Heaven. Fairness is not going to help us. Mercy will.

 

[Spindle4]

We don't want God to be fair, because then we all would be sent to Hell fire. We want God's mercy in Christ Jesus, because then he delivers us from Hell fire by washing us in the blood of Jesus to cleanse us of our sins and make us fit (upon the resurrection to a glorified body) to dwell with him in Heaven. Fairness is not going to help us. Mercy will.

Yes, so if that mercy, and the means of coming under it are not agreed to then damnation is the only other option. The false doctrine of Predetermined Reprobation is the theological term for the false teaching that whomever commits evil and sin does so because God has created and purposely predestined them to do so in order to damn them for eternity. This makes God the cause of the sins of Satan and his cohort, of Adam & Eve in Eden, of Cain, of Esau, of Pharoah, of Judas, and of Ananais & Saphira etc.

From Scripture we can deduce that God foreknows those who will be reprobate, but doesn't cause them to be.

Jas 1:12-15 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. (13) Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. (14) But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. (15) Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

Yes and remember God worked multiple times with Pharaoh but Pharaoh continually hardened his heart.