A deeply troubling and awful thing.

Frankj

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I think god basically rejected himself, with all his rules how can anyone breath or enjoy life? Everything equates to a sin if you really examine the 10 commandments (not all) and seven deadly sins, never mind visceral sin. I deem god unlikeable, I think he wants everyone to have a certain level of misery. Just because this is not apparent to many, some who really know him would agree.

When I went through catholic school, I was taught that god is loving but it was never explained in a way that amounted to any substance, nothing about how the holy spirit really works or synchronicity of the universe.
Two things you might add to your meditations on this, the First Commandment warns us to put no other gods ('ĕlôhı̂ym) before God and in the new Testament when Jesus was asked about the last days first warned us about being deceived by men claiming to represent him and be god.(Matthew 24: 4-5).

If -or when- you find yourself in a condition of thinking of God as your enemy do you find the fault in God or in yourself? Have you been deceived into following a false god without realizing it?

This, from my perspective, is where we can begin breaking down the barriers and bonds in ourselves that keep us separated from God and begin developing an actual close relationship with him through the Holy Spirit (something not given by false gods), this is were we will find understanding of his love for us and gain knowledge of the personal plan he has laid our for each of us before we were even born, a plan that will bring rewards and joy to our life that can be found nowhere else than through our personal relationship with God.

This is my thinking,

May the Lord bless your day and guide your thoughts.
 

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I think god basically rejected himself, with all his rules how can anyone breath or enjoy life? Everything equates to a sin if you really examine the 10 commandments (not all) and seven deadly sins, never mind visceral sin. I deem god unlikeable, I think he wants everyone to have a certain level of misery. Just because this is not apparent to many, some who really know him would agree.

When I went through catholic school, I was taught that god is loving but it was never explained in a way that amounted to any substance, nothing about how the holy spirit really works or synchronicity of the universe.

You deem God unlikeable? Are you going through some tough times and blaming it on God?
 

BruceLeiter

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I think god basically rejected himself, with all his rules how can anyone breath or enjoy life? Everything equates to a sin if you really examine the 10 commandments (not all) and seven deadly sins, never mind visceral sin. I deem god unlikeable, I think he wants everyone to have a certain level of misery. Just because this is not apparent to many, some who really know him would agree.

When I went through catholic school, I was taught that god is loving but it was never explained in a way that amounted to any substance, nothing about how the holy spirit really works or synchronicity of the universe.
God didn't "reject himself." Humans rejected him beginning with Adam and Eve. Read Ephesians 2:1-10, if you have a good translation of it. Verses 1-3 describe our unbelieving life before we believe in God. Verses 4-9 say that God makes us alive through faith (trust only in Jesus as our way to the Father's approval) by grace (his free acceptance because of Jesus' death). Verse 10 says that the result is God's guidance and power for us to make progress to be more like him after we believe.
 

Planet1246

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You deem God unlikeable? Are you going through some tough times and blaming it on God?
As a catholic I can only recall being taught the niceties of god, not much was ever covered about the floods and plagues. Can you please at least explain the former and how it is clear as day in the bible and how god did not have his hand in that?
 

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As a catholic I can only recall being taught the niceties of god, not much was ever covered about the floods and plagues. Can you please at least explain the former and how it is clear as day in the bible and how god did not have his hand in that?

In the old testament, God used plagues and floods. That doesn't make Him bad because the people were sinful.
 

BruceLeiter

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As a catholic I can only recall being taught the niceties of god, not much was ever covered about the floods and plagues. Can you please at least explain the former and how it is clear as day in the bible and how god did not have his hand in that?
Not only is God a God of love and grace, but he's also a divinely-just Judge of all humans. He allows, doesn't cause, Satan to bring floods and plagues to call unbelievers to trust in Jesus as the only way to his acceptance. If they don't during their whole lives, sadly, they have earned banishment from God's powerful, loving presence after they die.

We will all appear before our divine Judge after we die. Only those who trust in Jesus as the way to receive the Judge's verdict of "not-guilty" will enter into his loving presence.

Plagues and floods are also believers' wake-up call to grow to be more like Jesus through his resurrection power.
 

Planet1246

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Not only is God a God of love and grace, but he's also a divinely-just Judge of all humans. He allows, doesn't cause, Satan to bring floods and plagues to call unbelievers to trust in Jesus as the only way to his acceptance. If they don't during their whole lives, sadly, they have earned banishment from God's powerful, loving presence after they die.

We will all appear before our divine Judge after we die. Only those who trust in Jesus as the way to receive the Judge's verdict of "not-guilty" will enter into his loving presence.

Plagues and floods are also believers' wake-up call to grow to be more like Jesus through his resurrection power.

What is your ideation of heaven?
 

Planet1246

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In the old testament, God used plagues and floods. That doesn't make Him bad because the people were sinful.
Seems like overkill
 

SetFree

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I think god basically rejected himself, with all his rules how can anyone breath or enjoy life? Everything equates to a sin if you really examine the 10 commandments (not all) and seven deadly sins, never mind visceral sin. I deem god unlikeable, I think he wants everyone to have a certain level of misery. Just because this is not apparent to many, some who really know him would agree.

When I went through catholic school, I was taught that god is loving but it was never explained in a way that amounted to any substance, nothing about how the holy spirit really works or synchronicity of the universe.

Excuse me for butting in, however...

The more one gets into Bible study and keeping it as written, then why we are here in this world, what we are supposed to accomplish in Christ Jesus, and understanding why this present world time is so imperfect, then one slowly comes to the realization that God never intended for this 'present' world time to be His Eternal Kingdom. I still cause some brethren to roll their eyes in disgust when I bring up the event of Lucifer's fall that God's Word reveals caused... this present imperfect world, which Apostle Paul said God placed His present creation in "bondage of corruption" (Romans 8).

When Lucifer originally rebelled against God in wanting to be GOD, our Heavenly Father could have just ended everything back then, and we wouldn't even have been born. There would have been no need... for His Son Jesus Christ to be born in the flesh to die on the cross to remit the sins of those who believe. God could have just ended all sin and rebellion at Lucifer's rebellion in that 'old world'. But God, because He is long-suffering, like Apostle Peter said in 2 Peter 3, does not wish that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Our line of thinking in Christ shouldn't be about this present imperfect world which Peter said God has preserved unto destruction by fire. Instead, our line of thinking should be about the future world to come after this present one, and in God's future new heavens and a new earth. That will be a time of no more sin, no more death, no more wickedness, no more war, etc., etc. All... of those POINTS are written of in God's Word, but they just do not get a whole lot of Church play. God's Word even reveals that His River of the Waters of Life is a literal... River that will flow out from His future sanctuary on earth, and all waters that it touches will be healed! And the lion will eat straw like the ox! (Isaiah 11).
 

Planet1246

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Excuse me for butting in, however...

The more one gets into Bible study and keeping it as written, then why we are here in this world, what we are supposed to accomplish in Christ Jesus, and understanding why this present world time is so imperfect, then one slowly comes to the realization that God never intended for this 'present' world time to be His Eternal Kingdom. I still cause some brethren to roll their eyes in disgust when I bring up the event of Lucifer's fall that God's Word reveals caused... this present imperfect world, which Apostle Paul said God placed His present creation in "bondage of corruption" (Romans 8).

When Lucifer originally rebelled against God in wanting to be GOD, our Heavenly Father could have just ended everything back then, and we wouldn't even have been born. There would have been no need... for His Son Jesus Christ to be born in the flesh to die on the cross to remit the sins of those who believe. God could have just ended all sin and rebellion at Lucifer's rebellion in that 'old world'. But God, because He is long-suffering, like Apostle Peter said in 2 Peter 3, does not wish that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Our line of thinking in Christ shouldn't be about this present imperfect world which Peter said God has preserved unto destruction by fire. Instead, our line of thinking should be about the future world to come after this present one, and in God's future new heavens and a new earth. That will be a time of no more sin, no more death, no more wickedness, no more war, etc., etc. All... of those POINTS are written of in God's Word, but they just do not get a whole lot of Church play. God's Word even reveals that His River of the Waters of Life is a literal... River that will flow out from His future sanctuary on earth, and all waters that it touches will be healed! And the lion will eat straw like the ox! (Isaiah 11).
Such a complex and intricate system god has put forth.

Please explain what you think heaven is going to be like?
 

SetFree

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Such a complex and intricate system god has put forth.

Please explain what you think heaven is going to be like?

Yet I interpret ideas like "complex and intricate" for most as "just too fantastic to believe literally."

I can't count how many times the Church I was raised in only used the idea of the River of Revelation 22 as a symbolic metaphor only, about Christ's Saving Grace. Only through disciplined Bible study did I learn that River is actually a REAL River flowing from GOD's Throne, and that it was even at one time upon this very earth...

Gen 2:10-14
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
KJV


The "Hiddekel" is another name for the Tigris river. Both the Euphrates and Tigris rivers still exist today in Iraq.

Ezekiel 47 reveals about that literal River of the Waters of Life that will flow from Christ's future Millennial "sanctuary" on earth, and whatever waters it touches, those waters will be healed.

Revelation 21:1 there will be no more 'sea' in God's future new heavens and a new earth. Genesis 1:2-9 is showing how the earth back then was completely covered by waters of a flood which God moved portions of those waters to create today's sky atmosphere around the earth, and then moving the remaining waters upon the earth until the dry land underneath those waters appeared (or actually re-appeared, the earth had originally been created back at Genesis 1:1).

So think about it, fossil remains of tropical plant and animal life have been found at both the earth's Poles, showing those areas were at one time warm zones like the tropics. Same kind of fossils have been found in the deserts around the earth. And today's creation has the earth covered with about 70% water. What can that "no more sea" in God's future NHNE time mean? In my Biblical opinion, it means all the major waters upon today's earth is going back up in the sky to fill all those sky holes in our cloud atmosphere around the earth. The earth will be in a greenhouse type of climate, even temperatures over all of it, including the Poles. Woolly Mammoth that were found with vegetation still undecayed in its mouth and stomach, showing it was grazing in a green field, yet later buried in ice in the Arctic zones is proof those Arctic regions at one time were warm.

What all that essentially points to, in my opinion, is that God originally made a Perfect Creation in the beginning (like Gen.1:1). No sin, no death, no survival of the fittest struggles, and an angelic existence that lived upon the earth with angelic civilizations for that time. That was the time when Lucifer followed God, and he was exalted in God's Garden. Then Lucifer rebelled in wanting to be GOD and thus he fell, and GOD ended that 'old world', and that happened sometime in between the Genesis 1 & 2 verses. Starting at Genesis 1:3 is God restoring His creation for this 2nd world, our present world, which Apostle Paul showed in Romans 8:18-24 that He placed in "vanity" and "bondage of corruption".

That is why Peter showed in 2 Peter 3 that this present 2nd world earth age is preserved unto destruction by fire, God's "consuming fire". This present world is to show us what Lucifer's rebellion did, and how each soul is given a choice to follow Lucifer's rebellion, or follow our Heavenly Father through His Son Jesus Christ through Faith on His death and resurrection. Like Peter said, God is long-suffering, not wanting that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. That is what this present 2nd world earth age is for, to make that decision to repent, or not. And just in case some never had their opportunity to hear The Gospel and believe, and to correct the sins of even believers, at Christ's future return to this earth, He is going to reign with His faithful elect over all peoples of the world, for a literal "thousand years" period. No soul will be destroyed yet during that "thousand years" reign. But all... will bow to Jesus as KING and LORD, and be required to come up to Jerusalem from year to year and worship Him, and keep the feast of tabernacles, or there will be no rain upon their lands (Zechariah 14).

I will try to make an outline list of events that shows these differences per Scripture.
 
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SetFree

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Such a complex and intricate system god has put forth.

Please explain what you think heaven is going to be like?

The New Testament Books do not give as much detail of just how... the future new heavens and new earth will manifest. There exists much wrong speculation about what kind of existence it will be by those who do not study all their Bible.

1. Gen.1:1 in the beginning, is actually about God's original Perfect creation, no sin, no death, and Lucifer was created perfect in his ways, following God and was highly exalted in His Garden (Ezekiel 28 parable about the "king of Tyrus", and Ezekiel 31 about "the Assyrian" as a parable about Lucifer at one time exalted, and then he fell.

2. Gen.1:2, per the Hebrew tohu va bohu ("without form, and void"), the earth had become in a wasted and ruin state, with flood waters overspread upon the whole earth. Sometime in between these 2 verses, Gen.1:1 and Gen.1:2, Lucifer rebelled in coveting God's throne for himself. And God then ended that 'old world' using a world-wide flood (not Noah's flood). Apostle Peter said many willingly are ignorant of this particular flood of old that ended that old world (2 Peter 3).

3. Gen.1:2 is when God placed His original Perfect creation in "vanity" and in "bondage of corruption" like Apostle Paul revealed in Romans 8:18-25.

4. Lucifer, when he appears in God's Garden to tempt Eve, his new name became Satan, which means Adversary. His name Lucifer I assign, like many Bible scholars have, to the time back when he was perfect in his ways serving God at His throne as a covering cherub, and his name Satan for after he rebelled and became the Adversary against The Father and His Son Jesus Christ.

5. The very first 'sin' was by Lucifer in that 'old world' (1 John 3:8). The penalty of sin is death (Rom.5:12). Thus the power of death was assigned to the devil (Hebrews 2:14). For this reason The Only Begotten Son of God Jesus Christ was ordained to be born in this 2nd world earth age to die on the cross as a Sacrifice for the remission of the sins of those who believe.

6. The very first sin in the flesh was by Adam and Eve.

7. This present 2nd world earth age is in an IMPERFECT condition, in "bondage of corruption". We can actually come to a hint of understanding how God's future new heavens and a new earth will be in contrasting the two.

In my aviation weather class, when studying to become an aircraft pilot, we learned that one of the major causes of today's violent weather storms is because holes in our cloud atmosphere around the earth. The sun beads down upon the earth which causes hot air to rise, and water evaporation to go upwards also, while cold air in the upper altitudes drop, their molecules being heavier (think of hot air balloons, how they work). The hot air and cold air meet at some point, and that starts swirling the winds around, and eventually water vapor filling up in the clouds, and the result is often a creation of violent storms, like tornados, hurricanes, cyclones, etc. That is what is mainly responsible for today's weather systems around today's earth.

Revelation 21 says in the God's future new heavens and a new earth, there will be "no more sea". That means the majority of the waters of today's earth covering about 70% of the earth's surface, will no longer be on the earth. Where... might all those waters go?

Well, didn't God give us a hint about those waters in the Genesis 1:6-9 verses when He originally moved those waters around to make today's sky, and make the earth appear?

Think about it; Rev.21:1 suggests those waters are going UP, back to create maybe the ORIGINAL SKY around the earth which God created in the beginning? What would that do? It would fill up all those sky holes in today's cloud atmospheric system, and it would cause even temperatures around the whole earth. The earth would become a literal tropical Paradise over all of it.

In today's world, everything struggles, everything decays and breaks down, everything dies. This present world, even though God still made many things in it beautiful, still, it is a model of IMPERFECTION. God never intended this present 2nd world earth age to be perfect. Peter revealed that in 2 Peter 3 when he said this present world is preserved unto destruction by fire. And Lord Jesus said His Kingdom was not of this world, otherwise His servants would have fought so He would not have been delivered to be crucified (John 18:36). So be careful of those who claim Christ's Kingdom is setup in this present world, for it is not. His Kingdom to come is only here in Spirit, thorough His Church, The Temple of The Spirit. That's not about material structures and such, nor the new heavens and a new earth time.

8. When Lord Jesus returns after the future "great tribulation", and defeats Satan and his beast kingdom at the end of this world, there will be earth changes that will begin with Christ's coming.

9. Zechariah 6, about Jesus as that "BRANCH", says that He will build the temple. That is about the future "thousand years" temple which Lord Jesus and His elect priests will reign from with the "rod of iron" over the nations, at His return to this earth. It will be manifest in the area of the middle east, on earth. That location on earth then will be called the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" per Revelation 20:9.

10. Emitting from that future Millennial temple, or "sanctuary" per Ezekiel 47, will be the waters of God's River of Genesis 2 and Revelation 22. Whatever waters on earth it comes into contact with, they will be healed, and there will be many fish in those waters.

11. On either side of that River will be the many trees whose fruit will never be consumed, and whose leaves are for medicine, a parallel to the Tree of Life of Revelation 22. Thus God's River of the Waters of Life, and The Tree of Life, will manifest on earth with Jesus' future return.

12. Per Ezekiel 44, the "Zadok" ('The Just') priests only... will be allowed to approach Christ at His table and serve Him in that future "thousand years" time, for Jesus is The KING of The Zadok (i.e., King of Righteousness). Those represent Christ's faithful elect of both the seed of Israel and the faithful Gentiles, His Church.

13. In that future Millennium, all others will 'stand in judgment' throughout that "thousand years", and those Levites (priests and preachers) that erred, will have responsibility of the menial duties of the temple. God's people will be taught the difference between the holy and profane, and to discern between the clean and unclean (Ezekiel 44).

14. Outside the gates of that holy city on earth, is where the wicked spiritually dead will be assigned. Jesus called that place the "outer darkness". (Rev.22:14-15; Ezekiel 44:25-26; Luke 9:60)

15. After that "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect Church, the books will be opened to see if any more names will be found in the Book of Life. That "thousand years" is for the purpose especially to convert those souls who never heard The Gospel of Jesus Christ, and to straighten up believers that erred during this world so they learn the difference between what again? Between the holy and profane, and the clean and unclean.

The Book of Life would have no need to be opened after that 1,000 years reign if it meant that only those of "first resurrection" will be saved in Christ. Converts during the 1,000 years will be added to those of the "first resurrection". All others will be cast into the "lake of fire", along with Satan, the abode of hell, and death. That is the "second death", and it is about destruction of the souls and spirits of the wicked unsaved.

16. Only after the "lake of fire" "second death" event will God's New Heavens and a New Earth manifest. No more sea, no more death, no pain, no hunger, and per Isaiah 65, we shall build houses and plant vineyards, and enjoy the work of our hands. And God will make (actually re-make) us a joy, as the former things will no longer be remembered. The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

17. Per the end of Hebrews 12, on the day of Christ's future coming, this earth is going to tremble again like it did before, removing man's works off this earth so that only what God has created shall remain. That will be the 2nd time that God shook this ancient earth. That will also be the day when Apostle Paul's 'change' for all still alive on earth "at the twinkling of an eye" on the "last trump" will occur, and all will immediately be in their spiritual body (1 Corinthians 15 in conjunction with Isaiah 25).
 

Planet1246

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It doesn't answer my question about what heaven is going to be like, I only see a bunch of cryptic text. In a plain in simple way, explain.
 

Frankj

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I doubt anyone can actually know what heaven will be like after death anymore than an unborn child can know what the world outside the womb will be like after birth.

To understand something in this world we have to compare it to some experience we already have had, and since our only experiences while alive are worldly ones it is merely imaginative guesswork to try to apply them to something in the dimensions we have not yet entered (Heaven).

But we all will get to find out someday, either by being included in it or cast out from it according to our choice during earthly life.
 
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